Apologetics may be simply defined as the defense of the Christian faith. The word "apologetics" derives from the Greek word apologia, which was originally used as a speech of defense.

Roman Catholics, Calvinists, Pentecostals, Amillenialists

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Roman Catholics, Calvinists, Pentecostals, Amillenialists

    What the Holy Spirit put on my heart to say is how can a Roman Catholic be saved since he or she refuses to give his or her life to the God who keeps? How can a Calvinist be saved since he refuses to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated? Both groups teach a false Christ. Then there are gibberish babblers yet Jesus was never a gibberish babbler nor were His Apostles. And to reject the Jesus who returns to reign on earth for 1000 years is also a sign of unsalvation. Though these questions will offend many (1.2 billion Catholics and 800 million Calvinists) we should not refrain from speaking the truth on account of offending someone. The true body of Christ is a "little flock" (Luke 12.32) far smaller than the mustard seed of these massive groups that grew into a large tree and on its branches have come many birds like demons. That is what the Holy Spirit has led me to say. I might be like a Jeremiah who preached 40 years and you did not listen. But I said it, and here it is. The choice is yours.
    Last edited by Patrib; 03-02-2015, 11:20 PM.

    #2
    Originally posted by Patrib View Post
    "How can a Calvinist be saved since he refuses to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated? Both groups teach a false Christ."
    Patrib, Welcome to the forum!

    Can you elaborate more? Where in the Bible does it say that Regeneration happens after repentance and belief? Please explain what you mean, and also what your understanding entails concerning the doctrines of Grace/Calvinism? You kind of jumped from Soteriology to Eschatology.

    Are you asking how an unregenerate or natural man can repent and believe the Gospel?

    The ordo salutis is Latin for "order of salvation." It deals with what God has revealed to us about how He saves sinners regarding the order of His work upon them. Though the Scriptures do not list a direct order of the events ordained by God that bring us salvation, different theological camps have, nonetheless, proposed different orders.

    Just curious, which do you fall under Patrib?



    Calvinist Arminian Catholic
    1. Election--God's choice of people to save. This choice occurred before the foundation of the world.
    2. Predestination--The work of God to ordain to salvation those who have been elected to it.
    3. Calling--The preaching of the gospel message.
    4. Regeneration--The change in the person produced by God.
    5. Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
    6. Repentance--Turning from sin.
    7. Justification--The imputation of righteousness to the individual thus making him righteous according to the law.
    8. Sanctification--God's work in the individual to make him more like Christ.
    9. Perseverance--God's work in the individual results in the person continually believing throughout his life.
    10. Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.
    1. Calling--The preaching of the gospel.
    2. Actual Grace--God enables a person to respond to God's call of faith.
    3. Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
    4. Contrition--Attitude of remorse for sins committed.
    5. Regeneration/Baptism--The change produced in a person at baptism where all previous sins are removed.
    6. Penance--The process of regaining grace lost via sinning so that salvation is maintained.
    7. Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.
    8. Prevenient Grace --A grace from God that enables a person to believe.
    9. Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
    10. Repentance--Turning from sin.
    11. Regeneration--The change in the person produced by God.
    12. Justification--The imputation of righteousness to the individual thus making him righteous according to the law.
    13. Perseverance--God's work in the individual results in the person continually believing throughout his life.
    14. Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.
    1. Actual Grace--God enables a person to respond to God's call of faith.
    2. Faith--The trust an individual has in the work of God on the cross.
    3. Contrition--Attitude of remorse for sins committed.
    4. Regeneration/Baptism--The change produced in a person at baptism where all previous sins are removed.
    5. Penance--The process of regaining grace lost via sinning so that salvation is maintained.
    6. Glorification--Resurrection to glory with God.
    Comment>

      #3
      Where does it say in the Bible regeneration is before faith? Where does it say in the Bible a person can lose salvation once saved? I am OSAS Arminian.
      Comment>

        #4
        Please answer the questions put to you Patrib. As for your second set of questions:

        I can think of a few places to begin, namely the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus in John Chapter 3. Jesus makes an allusion for Nicodemus to Ezekiel 36:25-27. Also see Ezekiel 37:1-14 when Ezekiel is given the strange command to prophesy to dead bones. It seems foolish. They’re dead; thoroughly and completely dead. Similarly through the foolishness of preaching, we are to speak the words of life to dead men and women.

        In Paul's Letter to the Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place 'when we were dead'. Dead Patrib, Dead. A man can do nothing for himself until Regeneration takes place. Regeneration is strictly Monergistic.

        Further, resources... if you wish to step outside the box and see the response to the Arminianism heresy through the Five Points of Calvinism and how they were historically brought to the forefront of the Reformed Church: Amazing Grace - The History and Theology of Calvinism

        Who has said one can lose Salvation? Perseverance of the saints is the Calvinist doctrine that those who are truly saved will persevere to the end and cannot lose their salvation. It doesn't mean that a person who is truly saved will never lose faith or backslide at any time. But that they will ultimately persevere in faith (inspite of failures) such as not to lose their salvation.

        The doctrine of perseverance is rooted in God's unconditional election and predestination. That is, since God is the One who chose and predestined the elect to salvation, therefore the elect will be saved. They might turn away from faith and give appearance of losing their salvation, but if they really are elect they will repent and ultimately return to faith, because God is the One ensuring their salvation.

        This doctrine is also closely related to the doctrine of justification and adoption. Because God is the One who justifies the elect, no one can bring any condemnation on them. In the same way because those who truly believe in Christ are adopted as God's sons, they cannot be condemned to eternal punishment (although subject to God's loving discipline as a Father).

        See Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 17.

        God bless,
        William
        Comment>

          #5
          Dead bones resurrected has to do with resurrection not irresistibly imposed salvation. Your mistake with Paul is you misread "dead". Dead doesn't mean totally unable. You can still help an old lady across the street. This "death" has do with cessation of communication and disassociation from life, not total inability. Arminius came after Calvin. Arminius showed why all 5 points of Calvinism are false. "Perseverance" sounds like a works based faith; whereas OSAS Arminians are "preserved" once saved always saved; I noticed you borrowed this term "preserved" from Arminians, but don't forget you teach works based "persevering" to be saved (the 5th point of Calvinism). You asked who said a person can lose salvation? Roman Catholics, who are Remonstrants (non-OSASers) say they can. Whereas your faith is irresistibly imposed on you, in your own delusional. God gives us all the free choice to give our lives to the God who keeps so that though a Christian can fall, he can't fall away all the way, because they gave their lives to the God who always keeps and props us up who are His elect chosen before the foundations of the world. God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice so they who come to the cross as helpless sinners will be regenerated. God never regenerates someone before coming to the cross. God never imposes salvation on anyone. We are not robots. What love is that?
          Comment>

            #6
            Incredible,

            Isaiah 64:6 - We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

            Enjoy!
            Comment>

              #7
              Where does Isaiah 64.6 say you are totally unable? It is because a person is fallen they need to give their lives to Christ. Don't reject the sufficient prevenient grace of God to be able to do this as Savior of the whole world whosoever is willing. "Repent ye therefore, and be converted [or, regenerated], that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3.19). Regeneration follows repentance. Repentance is never forced on someone. What love is that? God pleads with you, but instead you exalt self in claiming you were irresistibly selected. God will never receive you that way. That's fake.

              May the thought that all cults misuse some passage from Scripture to create their cult awaken you to what you are involved in. The same has happened with you and Calvin and his heresy and idol Total Depravity. You're not a robot, God can do better than that; you have human free will.

              One of my favorite verses is 1 Tim. 4.10 which says God is the Savior of the world, specially those who believe. Since the latter is subset of the former it wouldn't make much sense to say those in the first set lack the opportunity, quality and right of the second set. God does not stop short of providing salvation to all whosoever is willing. The god of Calvinism is incapable of doing this so God trumps your god every time. Praise the Lord!
              Last edited by Patrib; 03-04-2015, 12:49 AM.
              Comment>
              Working...
              X
              Articles - News - SiteMap