Apologetics may be simply defined as the defense of the Christian faith. The word "apologetics" derives from the Greek word apologia, which was originally used as a speech of defense.

Poll Question: Perpetual Virginity of Mary?

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  • Poll Question: Perpetual Virginity of Mary?

    Let's hear the arguments for and against or just vote.
    12
    Yes
    25.00%
    3
    No
    75.00%
    9

  • #2
    There is no strictly biblical support for this doctrine (meaning that nowhere in the bible is it stated that Mary continued to be a virgin until she died). Besides, what does it really matter?
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Knotical View Post
      There is no strictly biblical support for this doctrine (meaning that nowhere in the bible is it stated that Mary continued to be a virgin until she died). Besides, what does it really matter?
      By "strictly biblical" do you mean "explicitly biblical"?

      If so, that is true but then many things are not "explicitly biblical" - God being Trinity for example.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bede View Post

        By "strictly biblical" do you mean "explicitly biblical"?

        If so, that is true but then many things are not "explicitly biblical" - God being Trinity for example.
        Trying to split hairs I see.

        Actually you can find multiple examples of the trinity in the bible. Of course the word "trinity" is not in there specifically, however, there are references to all three persons in the Godhead. But the idea that Mary was still a virgin up until the day she died is pure speculation, with absolutely no biblical support whatsoever.
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        • #5
          Knotical is correct. There is also the problem of avoiding the subject. The topic of the trinity is neither here nor there when it comes to the perpetual virginity of Mary. One cannot support the perpetual virginity of Mary by addressing any so called lack of explicitly biblical claims concerning the trinity.
          Last edited by Origen; 10-25-2016, 12:46 PM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Knotical View Post

            Trying to split hairs I see.

            Actually you can find multiple examples of the trinity in the bible. Of course the word "trinity" is not in there specifically, however, there are references to all three persons in the Godhead. But the idea that Mary was still a virgin up until the day she died is pure speculation, with absolutely no biblical support whatsoever.
            No, I.m not trying to split hairs but to clarify what you meant.

            Regarding the Trinity - yes, you can find biblical support for the concept. But there is no explicit statement that God is three persons. It's a deduction from different scriptural references.

            It's the same with Mary being ever-virgin.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Origen View Post
              Knotical is correct. There is also the problem of avoiding the subject. The topic of the trinity is neither here nor there when it comes to the perpetual virginity of Mary. One cannot support the perpetual virginity of Mary by addressing any so called lack of explicitly biblical claim concerning the trinity.
              I was not trying to avoid the the subject. Do you not think it is better to clarify terms before diving into a discussion?

              The mention of the Trinity was not made as a support for the perpetual virginity of Mary but to support the point that there does not need to be an explicit statement for something to be true.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bede View Post

                No, I.m not trying to split hairs but to clarify what you meant.

                Regarding the Trinity - yes, you can find biblical support for the concept. But there is no explicit statement that God is three persons. It's a deduction from different scriptural references.

                It's the same with Mary being ever-virgin.
                Your argument fails as you can't even come to any reasonable conclusion from scripture that Mary remained a virgin until death. However, yes the three different persons of the trinity are mentioned. Which is why we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

                Show my specific scriptural support that Mary should be considered a perpetual virgin. While you are at it, explain to me why this would be important.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Knotical View Post
                  Your argument fails as you can't even come to any reasonable conclusion from scripture that Mary remained a virgin until death.
                  Ah, so there is no evidence in the Bible. Enough said. Thank you.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bede View Post
                    I was not trying to avoid the the subject. Do you not think it is better to clarify terms before diving into a discussion?

                    The mention of the Trinity was not made as a support for the perpetual virginity of Mary but to support the point that there does not need to be an explicit statement for something to be true.
                    The only way to do that is with evidence. Anything else is pointless and does not address the topic.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Knotical View Post

                      Your argument fails as you can't even come to any reasonable conclusion from scripture that Mary remained a virgin until death.
                      I haven't presented any yet. But as you and Origen have already prejudged the matter there is no point in doing so.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Origen View Post
                        The only way to do that is with evidence. Anything else is pointless and does not address the topic.
                        As always you are completely and infallibly correct and I obviously do not know what I am saying.

                        I'd better go and lie down in a darkened room for a few weeks until I recover.

                        God bless
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bede View Post
                          As always you are completely and infallibly correct and I obviously do not know what I am saying.
                          Bede please do not go overboard or take everything I say personally. I like you and find you interesting.

                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bede View Post

                            I haven't presented any yet. But as you and Origen have already prejudged the matter there is no point in doing so.
                            So provide some, if there is any. We do not mean to attack you, but as you can surely understand when someone start asserting a doctrine that is supposedly bible-based it should be vetted, meaning to test it against what the bible says.

                            Sure there are confessions all over the place that assert a number of things, including some false doctrines, but that is how we grow and "sharpen" each other.
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                            • #15
                              Forgive me for my absence. A family emergency has kept me rather detained. But, point one, being baptised in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is not enough to guarantee that one is being baptised in the name of the Trinity. The Mormons baptise in those words, and they DON'T believe in the Trinity but in three separate gods. Now, that we have got that out of the way...

                              KNOTICAL has still not justified his use of a toilet. I don't see that such a device is mentioned in the Bible. Until he can present evidence of one...

                              Next, there is no evidence that Mary was ever pregnant more than once. One would think that since she was mentioned several times in the Bible, a further pregnancy would have been mentioned. And one would think that the birth of more brothers and sisters might have been noticed, and possibly the death of a few, since half of all children DIED in childbirth...

                              I would LOVE to know how he imputes false doctrines to Martin Luther, and holds himself higher than the great Reformer. Sounds rather arrogant to me. I am no Romanist. But to challenge 2,000 years of church teaching, East and West, is pure pomposity.

                              On to the next subject: Why is it important that Mary be Ever Virgin? Simple. If Joseph had children already, and died very early in their marriage, it is highly unlikely that they had much time to consummate their marriage anyway. And Mary, after his death, certainly would not have messed around with other men! Ergo, She would have remained Virginal. And since the Bible says very little on Mary's sexual status, the argument could go for or against without committing heresy either way. But the constant teaching history of the Church for 2,000 years kind of resolves it. 7 Ecumenical Councils resolves it. Or even 4 take care of it. Since Presbyterians and the Reformed Churches recognise Four...
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