Apologetics may be simply defined as the defense of the Christian faith. The word "apologetics" derives from the Greek word apologia, which was originally used as a speech of defense.

The doctrine of predestination

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  • The doctrine of predestination

    I'm really not sure where to post this, but I'd like to discuss the doctrine of predestination.

    If I understand correctly, it is the belief (backed by some scripture) that God chooses who is saved or not. Do you believe this to be true?

    If so, how does this play out in regards to praying for other people and their salvation? Do your prayers have any effect, or is their fate already decided by God?

  • #2
    God hasn't revealed the basis on which he chooses people for salvation. Perhaps it is sometimes in response to prayer. (We were chosen before the foundation of the earth, before anyone could have prayed for our salvation, but God is omniscient and knows what prayers will be made in the future.) On the other hand it is possible that God leads people to pray for certain people because he has already predestined those people for salvation. What we can know is that God wants us to do all we can to get people saved, including praying for them. Paul prayed for the salvation of Israel.
    Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.
    (Romans 10:1 ESV)
    We need to pray that lost people will be saved and leave it up to God to figure out how his promise to answer prayers interacts with predestination.
    Clyde Herrin's Blog
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    • #3
      Predestination goes hand in hand with election. Predestination basically means that God had already chosen those who would be saved (the elect) before they were even born.
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      • #4
        “12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” - John 1:12-13
        1 Corinthians 3:7 - “7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.”

        In the first reference, we are not born into salvation, not can we choose it of our own will, which is enmity against God, not by the will of man, where others try to petition the Lord to save such and such a person. We receive God, not accept Him.

        In the second reference, we spread the Gospel, which is to confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and Savior and to believe in our hearts that He died and rose from the dead. Another may also witness to that person, but ultimately God gives the increase if he is chosen from the foundation of the world, Revelation 17:8 KJV.

        Jesus was predestined to die for our sins before creation: Revelation 13:8 KJV

        Predestination is everything predetermined by God before the world began. Election deals specifically with who is chosen by God since before the world began.

        There is much more to say on this subject. Read Matthew 13, the parable of the wheat and the tares and Jesus' interpretation of it. We are what we are, either wheat or tares, as explained by the Lord.
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        • #5
          I believe that everything work together to lead the elect to their salvation, I can't claim that I'm saved but I knew and accepted Jesus recently (I was born to a Christian family but rejected Jesus 6 years ago, when I was 16 years old), what I know is that without somethings (mostly bad things) that happened in my life I wouldn't know him, I believe that he worked everything to lead me to my salvation, that answers your question as to why do we pray for people to be saved, maybe our prayers are not private maybe we pray with them about their salvation, and that lets them know about Jesus... when I try to talk to someone about Jesus I pray that God would give me the wisdom to be able to talk to them. I'm sorry if my answer was not clear enough.
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          • #6
            What people call predestination actually is God's omniscience. God knows who would be saved. He didn't choose who would be saved. Everyone has been given the choice to believe in Jesus, those who choose not to were already known long before the earth was created. Predestination is a false doctrine. Had it been true, it would have been impossible for righteous people to turn from righteousness. What does God tell Ezekiel? "If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done."
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            • #7
              The doctrine of predestination claims that before the foundations of the world were ever laid, God predetermined everything that will happen, right down to the smallest detail. Hence, the elect and reprobate were decided long before any of us came along. Hence, we have no choice in the matter. We cannot be sure who the elect are, since only God can judge. This doctrine has been challenged by many Christian thinkers for not honoring freedom, presenting us as puppets, and making God the author of terrible evil.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by hoghead1 View Post
                The doctrine of predestination claims that before the foundations of the world were ever laid, God predetermined everything that will happen, right down to the smallest detail. Hence, the elect and reprobate were decided long before any of us came along. Hence, we have no choice in the matter. We cannot be sure who the elect are, since only God can judge. This doctrine has been challenged by many Christian thinkers for not honoring freedom, presenting us as puppets, and making God the author of terrible evil.
                Just curious, do you believe God is the uncaused first cause? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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                • #9
                  Why are you asking me this? It is totally beside the point here.
                  Comment>
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