When will Jesus return?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When will Jesus return?


    We are meant to yearn for Jesus’ kingdom on earth. Jesus expects us to pray for it:

    Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

    Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

    But it’s more than a little presumptuous to predict a date for Jesus’ return?

    Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    If we ignore Mat 24:36 and get it wrong, the best option is to admit the mistake and learn from it. Jesus’ return will be a massive event that nobody will miss or mistake.

    Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague,

    I believe that Zech 14 is literal not figurative. Apart from the fact that Jesus has been promised the land that Abraham saw (Gen 13.14-15 & Gal 3.16), I doubt that there is an Egypt in heaven (Zech 14.18).

    On the one hand, Jesus returns as a thief in the night but only for those who have their focus elsewhere. Jesus’ brethren are expected to be ready:

    1 Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

    The disciples asked Jesus for a sign of his impending return:

    Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    In response, Jesus gave them and us the sign of the fig tree:

    Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    And Israel is the fig tree:

    Hos 9:10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree
    Jer 24:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah

    ISRAEL’S REBIRTH! That’s a sign that Jesus’ return is near. Jesus gives us other signs:

    THE DAYS OF NOAH.
    Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
    Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

    THE DAYS OF LOT.
    Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    Isa 3:9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not.

    PEACE AND SAFETY.
    1 Thes 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    Is the verse above a cry for peace? Or is it a cry after it’s assumed that peace and safety has been achieved? The Arab Israeli wars started shortly after Israel’s rebirth and we’ve been hearing about peace talks from 1948 until now.

    Putin said willing to host Israeli-Palestinian peace talks | The Times of Israel

    Israel’s rebirth first required a scattering. required Jesus made this prediction before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered Israel throughout Europe:

    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    We’re meant to recognise the signs that Jesus’ return is near: 1 Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness. Summarising the signs as I see them:

    * Israel’s rebirth.
    * Disobeying God as in the days of Noah.
    * Disobeying God as in the days of Lot.
    * Attempts to achieve peace and safety.

    Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.




  • #2
    So, what was the ultimate point of your post? Is it that Jesus has yet to return and we have not idea when that will be? That is quite the mystery.
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by Knotical View Post
      So, what was the ultimate point of your post? Is it that Jesus has yet to return and we have not idea when that will be? That is quite the mystery.
      The interpretation held by premilliennialist centralizes on the physical possession of Jerusalem. The significance is placed upon the physical and prophetic, because in A.D. 70 when Israel was deprived of their ancient city, they now once again repossess the city. The present occupation of Jerusalem signifies in keeping with prophecy, that the times of the Gentiles have come to an end. A superficial study of Luke 21:24 would seem to indicate that this is the case, and that Israel is now moving into a new phase of its history.

      Consider these two parallel passages:
      • Luke 21:24 “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
      • Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own, conceits: that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.


      The word fullness is given a variety of meanings by expositors:

      Charles Hodge in keeping with his postmillennial point of view. Hodge states, “It is not Paul’s doctrine that all Gentiles who ever lived are to be introduced into the kingdom of Christ. Nor does it mean that all the Gentiles who may be alive when the Jews are converted shall be true Christians. All that can be safely inferred from this language is, that the Gentiles, as a body, the mass of the Gentile world, will be converted before the restoration of the Jews, as a nation.” A number of other expositors take it as referring to the large number of Gentiles who are saved with the emphasis on quantity rather than time.

      The time element, however, is clearly indicated by the word “until.” This definitely introduces a time factor, contrasting the present situation to that which will follow when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

      When the two concepts, “the times of the Gentiles” and “the fullness of the Gentiles” are compared, it becomes evident that the times of the Gentiles is primarily a political term and has to do with the political overlordship of Jerusalem. By contrast, the term “the fullness of the Gentiles” refers to the present age in which Gentiles predominate in the church and far exceed Israel in present spiritual blessing. It becomes clear, therefore, that, while the two concepts may be contemporaneous at least for much of their fulfillment, the termini of the two periods are somewhat different. The times of the Gentiles will end only when Israel will permanently gain political control of Jerusalem at the second advent of Christ, whereas the fullness of the Gentiles will be completed when God’s present task of winning Jew and Gentile to Christ is completed.

      Amillenarians and postmillenarians usually make the two periods end at the same time, namely, at the second coming of Christ. Premillenarians, who distinguish the rapture occurring before the time of tribulation from the second coming of Christ to the earth which follows the tribulation, bring the period of the fullness of the Gentiles to a close at the rapture of the church. Obviously, because the passages in themselves are not completely definitive, any expositor necessarily has to refer by way of reference to his larger scheme of prophecy and its fulfillment and interpret the passages accordingly. However, in the nature of the fact that the close of the interadvent period will bring terrible judgment upon the Gentile world, it is reasonable to assume that the period of Gentile blessing will end before the period of Gentile judgment comes. In any event, it is safe to say that the two terms do not mean precisely the same thing and do not have the same characteristics, and it is better, therefore, to interpret the two terms in the light of their context.

      Generally speaking, most expositors bring the times of the Gentiles to a close with the second coming of Christ, and the variety of opinions concentrate more upon the time of its beginning. Because the expression is cast in the context of a future time when Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies and destroyed, a prophecy fulfilled in A.D. 70, many have concluded that the times of the Gentiles will begin at that time, as does Lenski.

      A close examination of the passage in Luke 21, however, does not indicate that the times of the Gentiles began with the destruction of Jerusalem. The passage deals only with the time of conclusion of the times of the Gentiles, not its beginning. For this reason, a sound judgment in the matter must be based upon the total teaching of the Bible concerning the relationship between Gentiles and the people of Israel.
      As for the link: "Putin said willing to host Israeli-Palestinian peace talks". Premillennialist interpret the end of the age as a period still ahead. This period is anticipated in Daniel 9:27 in which a future ruler in the Mediterranean area will make a covenant with the people of Israel for seven years. If this futuristic interpretation is correct, Israel, in this covenant will still be under Gentile supervision in the broad sense of the term.

      As commonly interpreted the period of peace introduced by the covenant will terminate after it has run half its course and the period of great tribulation will follow. According to the predictions of Christ Himself, Israel will then be forced to flee to the mountains (Matt 24:16) and Jerusalem will again come under the tramp of Gentile feet. It is also clear from Zechariah 14 that Jerusalem will become the bone of contention and the source of a great battle just before the second coming of Christ.

      The study of the Scriptures, however, does support the idea that the present reoccupation of Jerusalem by Israel is a matter of tremendous Biblical and prophetic importance. Christians who believe that the rapture of the church will occur before these events find their ultimate fulfillment have reason to hope that the coming of the Lord is indeed near.

      And this:

      Originally posted by pah View Post
      * Israel’s rebirth.
      * Disobeying God as in the days of Noah.
      * Disobeying God as in the days of Lot.
      * Attempts to achieve peace and safety.

      Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
      Matthew Henry contributes to this discussion in his commentary :) :

      Christ shows what all those things would end in, namely, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the utter dispersion of the Jewish nation; which would be a type and figure of Christ's second coming. The scattered Jews around us preach the truth of Christianity; and prove, that though heaven and earth shall pass away, the words of Jesus shall not pass away. They also remind us to pray for those times when neither the real, nor the spiritual Jerusalem, shall any longer be trodden down by the Gentiles, and when both Jews and Gentiles shall be turned to the Lord... .

      .. . When Christ came to destroy the Jews, he came to redeem the Christians that were persecuted and oppressed by them; and then had the churches rest. When he comes to judge the world, he will redeem all that are his from their troubles. So fully did the Divine judgements come upon the Jews, that their city is set as an example before us, to show that sins will not pass unpunished; and that the terrors of the Lord, and his threatenings against impenitent sinners, will all come to pass, even as his word was true, and his wrath great upon Jerusalem.
      Originally posted by pah View Post
      If we ignore Mat 24:36 and get it wrong, the best option is to admit the mistake and learn from it. Jesus’ return will be a massive event that nobody will miss or mistake.
      pah, what are the implications if you're wrong? What does this do for Christianity in general, and how many times does a person have to be wrong in order to consider that the Premillennialist view of Scripture is discredited with each passing year? Granted, nobody will miss Jesus' second coming, however, what is being questioned is the credibility of a theological camp and whether they are in large responsible for much of today's false prophecy.

      God bless,
      William

      Sources:
      http://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/21-24.htm
      https://bible.org/article/times-gentiles
      Comment>

      • #4
        William, by response was a bit tongue-in-cheek, as it is just another rehash of end times speculation. For me this kind of discussion falls under the admonishment Paul makes in one of his letters where he is telling the church not to get distracted by things of lesser importance than sharing the gospel and helping people understand the path toward salvation. So often do we who are part of the church get bogged down in these kinds of discussions when we ultimately scare some of the more skittish people off.
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Knotical View Post
          William, by response was a bit tongue-in-cheek, as it is just another rehash of end times speculation. For me this kind of discussion falls under the admonishment Paul makes in one of his letters where he is telling the church not to get distracted by things of lesser importance than sharing the gospel and helping people understand the path toward salvation. So often do we who are part of the church get bogged down in these kinds of discussions when we ultimately scare some of the more skittish people off.
          I know, and pardon me for using you as an excuse to compile my studies on the subject. And as to your last point, that's is one of the implications I see in making false prophesy. On the other hand, if a church presents such poor theology and for that reason the skittish person runs off, then that is probably a good thing. But it makes the orthodox evangelist's job that much harder the next time around.

          God bless,
          William
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by William View Post

            I know, and pardon me for using you as an excuse to compile my studies on the subject. And as to your last point, that's is one of the implications I see in making false prophesy. On the other hand, if a church presents such poor theology and for that reason the skittish person runs off, then that is probably a good thing. But it makes the orthodox evangelist's job that much harder the next time around.

            God bless,
            William
            That is quite alright. My eyes tend to involuntarily start rolling as soon as I see a new thread about the end times. Especially, when someone is suggesting they have a new date as to when it will happen with "facts" to back up their assertion.
            Comment>

            • #7
              I don't think you're the only one, ever since I was little people were talking about definitive dates of the second coming, there came a point when I thought that if someone was absolutely sure it all pointed to an exact date, that was probably the only day we could safely discard since the bible indicates that no one knows.

              I just live my life as normal any of those days. It just comes a time you realise it will keep on happening so you no longer let yourself be dragged.


              Comment>
              Working...
              X
              Articles - News - SiteMap