Discussions related to the end times and Bible prophecy.

Israel being gathered

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Israel being gathered

    I'm just looking for others to either shed light, to give their understanding or who have more experience with these scriptures that concern the regathering of Israel and if modern day Israel is a full or partial (or no) fulfillment of scripture.
    I know that there are those who are covenant or dispensation or those who don't really seem to care one way or the other and have heard both from covenant and dispensation. To be honest, I'm not sure either way on this matter so just looking for some further insight. It seems there are die hard's on both sides of the issue

    "For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God." (Ezekiel 36:24-28)
    What appears to be a second gathering?

    It shall come to pass in that day that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left, from Assyria and Egypt, from Pathros and Cush, from Elam and Shinar, from Hamath and the islands of the sea. He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11:11-12)
    AND...go ;)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tuesday View Post
    I'm just looking for others to either shed light, to give their understanding or who have more experience with these scriptures that concern the regathering of Israel and if modern day Israel is a full or partial (or no) fulfillment of scripture.
    I know that there are those who are covenant or dispensation or those who don't really seem to care one way or the other and have heard both from covenant and dispensation. To be honest, I'm not sure either way on this matter so just looking for some further insight. It seems there are die hard's on both sides of the issue



    What appears to be a second gathering?

    AND...go ;)
    G'day Tuesday,

    I probably haven't anything to add to what you have already heard from those siding with Covenant Theology. Isaiah 11:11-12 burst the bounds of nationality (all who believe become part of Israel/Church), while emphasizing that salvation is in only one name under heaven.
    • Acts 4:12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”12
    • Revelation 22:13,16 - 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” ... . 16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

    Jesus is both root and offspring of the royal house. Not all will flock to Jesus (neither Jews or Gentiles), thus Ezekiel 36:25-27. Again, the Elect are called from every tribe, tongue, and nation. God has always preserved a certain faithful remnant. Not all claiming to be Israel are Israel. In the OT, Israel consisted of those forward looking in faith to the coming of the Messiah, just as the NT saints consist of those having a historical looking faith at Him having already come (apart from eschatological soteriology). I believe these are the faithful consisting of Israel/Church.

    I only consider the modern nation of Israel to be partial Israel. That is, the Elect are from all tribes, tongues, and nations including modern Israel. Though, true Israel covers the Globe, and not confined to geographical lines drawn in the sand by the United Nations. OT Israel was a foreshadowing of the Church. Another words, the things pertaining to Israel “happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come” 1 Corinthians 10:11.

    Suggested Reading: The Visible and Invisible Church; Its Nature and Practicality -Christforums
    Suggested Source Category: Covenant Theology -Christforums

    God bless,
    William
    Comment>

    • #3
      Originally posted by William View Post
      I only consider the modern nation of Israel to be partial Israel. That is, the Elect are from all tribes, tongues, and nations including modern Israel. Though, true Israel covers the Globe, and not confined to geographical lines drawn in the sand by the United Nations. OT Israel was a foreshadowing of the Church. Another words, the things pertaining to Israel “happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come” 1 Corinthians 10:11.
      Thank you I'm reading through both suggestions.
      My biggest struggle, or two rather, would be the 7 year agreement that's broken from Daniel 9 in the description of the 70 weeks. Is this a breaking with an established, national and quite literally located with boundaries type of Israel? This part seems to muddy my understanding the most between covenant and dispensation.

      The second is the absolute devotion to the modern nation of Israel by many Christians as if they are separate when, in my eyes, they are pretty Godless and still reject in large part Christ

      Who's getting this 7 year split??
      Sorry, I'm still very much learning this topic
      Comment>

      • #4
        Originally posted by Tuesday View Post
        The second is the absolute devotion to the modern nation of Israel by many Christians as if they are separate when, in my eyes, they are pretty Godless and still reject in large part Christ
        I was reading from Sam Storms: Sam Storms: Oklahoma City, OK > Daniel's 70 Weeks Thought to pass it along to you.

        Maybe NetChaplain here on this forum would like to chime in if you're looking for a dispensational interpretation or input:

        As to what you said about absolute devotion, I shared your sentiments here: Why The Law? -Christforums

        God bless,
        William

        P.S. Do I need to move within the boundaries of modern national Israel to be considered Israel?
        Comment>

        • #5
          Originally posted by Tuesday View Post
          The second is the absolute devotion to the modern nation of Israel by many Christians as if they are separate when, in my eyes, they are pretty Godless and still reject in large part Christ
          To understand the relationship between Israel and the church I suggest you read chapters 9 to 11 of Romans. Because the Jews rejected their Messiah God stopped working through them and began doing his work through the church. However a time is coming when the church will be removed in the Rapture and the Jews will be restored to their former position.
          Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
          “The Deliverer will come from Zion,
          he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
          “and this will be my covenant with them
          when I take away their sins.”
          (Romans 11:25-27 ESV)
          Clyde Herrin's Blog
          Comment>

          • #6
            Originally posted by Tuesday View Post
            I'm just looking for others to either shed light, to give their understanding or who have more experience with these scriptures that concern the regathering of Israel and if modern day Israel is a full or partial (or no) fulfillment of scripture.
            I know that there are those who are covenant or dispensation or those who don't really seem to care one way or the other and have heard both from covenant and dispensation. To be honest, I'm not sure either way on this matter so just looking for some further insight. It seems there are die hard's on both sides of the issue

            What appears to be a second gathering?
            Huge subject.

            One could say it starts with God's Promise in 1 Kings 11, that He would always leave one tribe in Jerusalem for David's sake. This He has done, especially with the returning small remnant of the "house of Judah" (3 tribes only) after the 70 years Babylon captivity of the house of Judah (see Ezra 2). That could represent a 1st time of God gathering Israel back to the lands of promise. Or the returning of many of Judah back to the lands in 1948 to become a nation again. But I'd pick the former, since it involved a total restart, i.e., rebuilding the city and its walls, and the 2nd temple.

            The second time represents the time when Jesus returns at the end of this world. The resurrection is one of the subjects in the next Ezekiel 37 chapter, along with the gathering of the two houses and their being put back together in the holy lands.


            A Summary of Events:

            1. Solomon before he fell from grace - all 12 tribes of Israel with divisions of the land, the ten tribes in the northern lands, and Judah and Benjamin in the southern lands, the Levites interspread among both.

            2. God rends the kingdom from Solomon's son Rehoboam, and divides it into two separate kingdoms, the southern "kingdom of Judah" with its capital city of Jerusalem, with the tribe of Benjamin only allied with them. And then the northern "kingdom of Israel" made up of the ten northern tribes of Israel, with their king Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim which God made, and their capital city in the northern called Samaria.

            3. Rehoboam, Solomon's son and king of Judah at Jerusalem, decides to go north to war and bring back the ten northern tribes under his control. God through His prophet tells Rehoboam not to, that this matter of separation of the tribes is of Him.

            4. Jeroboam, king of Israel over the northern ten tribes, fears many of the ten tribes will side with Rehoboam when they go down to Jerusalem to worship per the old covenant requirement. So Jeroboam sets up two golden calf idols, one in Bethel and the other in Shiloh, both cities in the northern kingdom, and tells the ten tribes here are your gods. Jeroboam also sets up common priests of the people.

            5. Some small remnants of the ten tribes refuse Jeroboam's golden calf idol worship, and instead go down to Jerusalem and join the house of Judah. The sons of Levi in the northern kingdom cannot do their priestly duties because of Jeroboam's calf idol worship, so they leave the northern kingdom and go down to Jerusalem and join with the kingdom of Judah. The kingdom or "house of Judah" is now made up of three tribes, the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi (and some small remnants from the northern tribes that left), and then also the strangers that Solomon, David, and Joshua left of the bondservants, the Canaanites. (These of the house of Judah became the Jews per the Jewish historian Josephus).

            6. The two kingdoms held war against each other.

            7. Because of Jeroboam's golden calf idols, God eventually fulfills His promised warning to the children of Israel from Deut. 4 about falling into false worship, that He would scatter His people among the Gentiles. God brings the kings of Assyria in stages upon the ten northern tribed kingdom, the "house of Israel". The kings of Assyria ten take captive the ten northern tribes out of the land, and move them to the lands of the Medes and Assyria, areas north of Babylon.

            8. The king of Assyria then takes foreign peoples from 5 provinces of Babylon and places them into the northern holy land instead of Israel, and the kings of Assyria were wont to do in order to control the peoples they conquered. These foreigners above Jerusalem in the north around Samaria became the Samaritans of the NT times. The Jews of the house of Judah in the south remained in the land, and they would have nothing to do with the Samaritans, knowing they were foreigners from Babylon. The Babylon foreigners brought their idol worship with them, five different pagan idols.

            9. Around 120 years after God had removed the ten northern tribes of Israel, the house of Judah also began to fall away and do idol worship.

            10. God punished the house of Judah (Jews) also, and told them He was going to send the king of Babylon upon them to take them captive. He told them to not fight, but agree to go captive for 70 years, and that He would take care of them while in captivity to Babylon. This was the time of Jeremiah, and Daniel with the captivity to Babylon for 70 years. This applied to the house of Judah only, the 3 tribes of the southern kingdom. The northern ten tribed kingdom were already gone out of the land into their own captivity when this happened.

            11. When Judah's (Jews) 70 years captivity was over, only a small remnant of the 3 tribed house of Judah returned to Jerusalem to rebuild the city , wall, and the temple. Like God has promised He would take care of them while in captivity, they had built houses, planted vineyards, and gotten comfortable in Babylon, so the majority of the house of Judah stayed in Babylon after the captivity was over. These would later be scattered through the countries like the ten tribes were.

            12. The history of the "house of Judah" or "kingdom of Judah", i.e., the small remnant that returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity, continues all the way to the time of Christ's first coming, crucifixion and resurrection. In 70 A.D. God brought the Roman army upon Jerusalem because of the Jew's rebellion against them, and the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and scattered the Jews of the house of Judah. The ten tribes of the house of Israel still remained scattered in their own captivity and unjoined with the house of Judah.

            13. To this day, the house of Israel (ten tribes) and the house of Judah (Jews) have not been joined back together in the holy land, as God has promised will happen. Those in the nation of Israel today only represent children of the old returned remnant from Babylon, and returnees from the house of Judah that were scattered in other nations. The majority of the house of Judah (3 tribes) are still scattered among the Gentiles, as the ten tribes are also.
            Comment>

            • #7
              Hi, Tuesday! one thing I noticed, doesn't happen often, is that when you put together the scriptures that you and Theophilus posted, they may all be the same prophecy written by different authors. You will prolly find similar situations in many other books of the Bible, such as the "Day of the LORD," which there are apparently 86 verses and precedes His second coming. The split you may be wondering about is Israel now, and Israel to come. Like you said, their hearts are hardened so they are going to face yet another judgement. This one I believe most agree is the one to end them all when GOD'S Kingdom on earth is set up by our LORD JESUS CHRIST. And Amen to that! A search on gathering of Israel verses comes up with 29 according to one site (29 Bible verses about Gathering Israel). I know nothing of the author of these said sites, but have been to rapture ready before. This is one way for you to search and destroy. Er, compare! Yes compare. With the coming of the antichrist, he warns once again for the inhabitants of Jerusalem to "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days! But pray that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath;"
              - <a class="rtBibleRef" href="Link.16-%2020" target="_blank" data-reference="Matt 24.16- 20" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference">Matthew 24:16- 20</a> (Page not found - Rapture Ready)

              So one last time the Israelites are dispersed. And JESUS warns don't mess around with this time. GO! Again i don't know if this is the split you were looking for. JESUS comes back to set up His earthly kingdom. So Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 29:14, 32:37, Ezekiel 39:28, maybe Zephaniah 3:20.
              Israel is going to become quite different than today, where all Jews will be called home to. Sorry i did not take the time to do links. Hope this confused you. I mean helped! Yeah, helped.
              Comment>

              • #8
                Hello,

                Is anyone aware Rome destroyed all Jewish geneological records in A.D. 70? Most importantly the Levitical geneological records.

                And that modern Jewry and Judiasm is not represented by genetic race but represented by a religion or a religious movement.

                Anyone in the world can be a Jew if they choose to be, only requires conversion.

                Modern Judaism esteem the Talmud (voluminous Rabbinical writings and traditions) higher than the Tanakh too. Modern Judaism is actually Talmudism.

                Comment>

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Parousia70 View Post
                  Is anyone aware Rome destroyed all Jewish geneological records in A.D. 70?
                  Primary source?

                  Comment>

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Origen View Post
                    Primary source?
                    Here is a good source:

                    After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, the nation of Israel, after the flesh, was scattered throughout the earth, and lost all tribal relations. This scattering was made immutable due to the fact that all tribal genealogical records were destroyed with the Temple in A.D. 70. The simple fact is that there is no existing Jewish race. Not only the Bible confirms this (as already revealed), but the writings of worldly authorities, including Jewish resources as well. Consider the following quotations:

                    The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1973): "The Jews As A Race: The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race. Anthropocentric measurements of Jewish groups in many parts of the world indicate that they differ greatly from one another with respect to all the important physical characteristics" (vol. 12, page 1054).

                    Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem (1971): "It is a common assumption, and one that sometimes seems ineradicable even in the face of evidence to the contrary, that the Jews of today constitute a race, a homogeneous entity easily recognizable. From the preceding discussion of the origin and early history of the Jews, it should be clear that in the course of their formation as a people and a nation they had already assimilated a variety of racial strains from people moving into the general area they occupied. This had taken place by interbreeding and then by conversion to Judaism of a considerable number of communities. . . .

                    "Thus, the diversity of the racial and genetic attributes of various Jewish colonies of today renders any unified racial classification of them a contradiction in terms. Despite this, many people readily accept the notion that they are a distinct race. This is probably reinforced by the fact that some Jews are recognizably different in appearance from the surrounding population. That many can't be easily identified is overlooked and the stereotype for some is extended to all - a not uncommon phenomenon" (Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, 1971, vol. 3, p. 50).

                    Encyclopedia Americana (1986): "Racial and Ethnic Considerations. Some theorists have considered the Jews a distinct race, although this has no factual basis. In every country in which the Jews lived for a considerable time, their physical traits came to approximate those of the indigenous people. Hence the Jews belong to several distinct racial types, ranging, for example, from fair to dark. Among the reasons for this phenomenon are voluntary or involuntary miscegenation and the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism" (Encyclopedia Americana, 1986, vol. 16, p. 71).

                    Collier's Encyclopedia (1977): "A common error and persistent modern myth is the designation of the Jews as a 'race! This is scientifically fallacious, from the standpoint of both physical and historical tradition. Investigations by anthropologists have shown that Jews are by no means uniform in physical character and that they nearly always reflect the physical and mental characteristics of the people among whom they live" (Collier's Encyclopedia, 1977, vol. 13, p. 573).

                    Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia (1970): "In 1970 the Israeli Knesset adopted legislation defining a Jew as one born of a Jewish mother or a convert" (vol. 14, p. 214).

                    H.G. Wells: "There can be little doubt that the scattered Phoenicians in Spain and Africa and throughout the Mediterranean, speaking as they did a language closely akin to Hebrew and being deprived of their authentic political rights, became proselytes to Judaism. For phases of vigorous proselytism alternated with phases of exclusive jealousy in Jewish history. On one occasion the Idumeans, being conquered, were all forcibly made Jews. There were Arab tribes who were Jews in the time of Muhammad, and a Turkish people who were mainly Jews in South Russia in the ninth century. Judaism is indeed the reconstructed political ideal of many shattered peoples - mainly Semitic.... The main part of Jewry never was in Judea and had never come out of Judea" (The Outline of History, p. 505).

                    John Bray: "Many Christians do not know that the vast majority of so-called Jews in the world today are the Ashkenazim Jews, while the remainder of them are the Sephardim Jews. The Ashkenazim Jews have as their background not the nation of Israel but a country called Khazaria, which country at one time was the largest country in Europe. The settlers of Khazaria were Turks and Huns. In A.D. 740 King Bulan of Khazaria decided to adopt the Judaistic religion for his country. A number of Jews were already living there. So he converted to Judaism, along with all his officials, and whole nation ended up being known as a nation of Jews. In 970, Russia came in and dominated the situation, and the Khazars were scattered, many of them going down into Poland and Lithuania. Where at the dawn of our modern civilization the largest concentration of Jews were found. Today, the largest percentage of so-called Jews in the world have as their background this group of people" (This information is fully documented in detail in John Bray's book, Israel in Bible Prophecy).

                    Today, being a Jew simply means that one is of the Judaistic religion or a convert to it, or else in a "brotherhood" of those who are. Therefore, being a Jew has nothing to do with race. We are familiar with a number of notable figures, such as Sammy Davis, Jr., Elizabeth Taylor, Madonna, and Tom Arnold, in fact, who became Jews by conversion to the religion of Judaism.

                    Therefore, we can clearly and confidently assert that there is no such thing as a Jewish race, nor ever can there be. Since the fall of Jerusalem, and the scattering of the nation of Israel in the first century, the nation calling itself Israel has consisted of a collection of people from nearly every nation in the world, with no relation to the twelve tribes of the historical nation known as Israel. Any attempts to state that there is, or will ever again be, a race of Israelites are proven to be futile and of no force. There is no Jewish race.

                    What should a follower of Christ think of Jews?
                    Romans 2:28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."


                    Followers of Christ ARE Jews! Followers of Christ have not REPLACED Israel…the followers of Christ ARE Israel. Spiritual Israel.


                    Who Are God's Chosen People?

                    Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem (1971 / 1986)
                    “It is a common assumption, and one that sometimes seems ineradicable even in the face of evidence tothe contrary, that the Jews of today constitute a race, a homogeneous entity easily recognizable. From the preceding discussion of the origin and early history of the Jews, it should be clear that in the course of their formation as a people and a nation they had already assimilated a variety of racial strains from people moving into the general area they occupied. This had taken place by interbreeding and then by conversion to Judaism of a considerable number of communities.
                    . . .
                    “Thus, the diversity of the racial and genetic attributes of various Jewish colonies of today renders any unified racial classification of them a contradiction in terms. Despite this, many people readily accept the notion that they are a distinct race. This is probably reinforced by the fact that some Jews are recognizably different in appearance from the surrounding population. That many cannot be easily identified is overlooked and the stereotype for some is extended to all – a not uncommon phenomenon” (Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, 1971, vol. 3, p. 50 / also 1986).
                    Comment>

                    • #11
                      Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

                      Galatians 3:16

                      There is only one Seed of Abraham whom the promises belong - Christ. And his genealogical records are given in Luke and Matthew.
                      Comment>

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Parousia70 View Post

                        Here is a good source:

                        After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, the nation of Israel, after the flesh, was scattered throughout the earth, and lost all tribal relations. This scattering was made immutable due to the fact that all tribal genealogical records were destroyed with the Temple in A.D. 70. The simple fact is that there is no existing Jewish race. Not only the Bible confirms this (as already revealed), but the writings of worldly authorities, including Jewish resources as well. Consider the following quotations:

                        The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1973): "The Jews As A Race: The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race. Anthropocentric measurements of Jewish groups in many parts of the world indicate that they differ greatly from one another with respect to all the important physical characteristics" (vol. 12, page 1054).

                        Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem (1971): "It is a common assumption, and one that sometimes seems ineradicable even in the face of evidence to the contrary, that the Jews of today constitute a race, a homogeneous entity easily recognizable. From the preceding discussion of the origin and early history of the Jews, it should be clear that in the course of their formation as a people and a nation they had already assimilated a variety of racial strains from people moving into the general area they occupied. This had taken place by interbreeding and then by conversion to Judaism of a considerable number of communities. . . .

                        "Thus, the diversity of the racial and genetic attributes of various Jewish colonies of today renders any unified racial classification of them a contradiction in terms. Despite this, many people readily accept the notion that they are a distinct race. This is probably reinforced by the fact that some Jews are recognizably different in appearance from the surrounding population. That many can't be easily identified is overlooked and the stereotype for some is extended to all - a not uncommon phenomenon" (Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, 1971, vol. 3, p. 50).

                        Encyclopedia Americana (1986): "Racial and Ethnic Considerations. Some theorists have considered the Jews a distinct race, although this has no factual basis. In every country in which the Jews lived for a considerable time, their physical traits came to approximate those of the indigenous people. Hence the Jews belong to several distinct racial types, ranging, for example, from fair to dark. Among the reasons for this phenomenon are voluntary or involuntary miscegenation and the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism" (Encyclopedia Americana, 1986, vol. 16, p. 71).

                        Collier's Encyclopedia (1977): "A common error and persistent modern myth is the designation of the Jews as a 'race! This is scientifically fallacious, from the standpoint of both physical and historical tradition. Investigations by anthropologists have shown that Jews are by no means uniform in physical character and that they nearly always reflect the physical and mental characteristics of the people among whom they live" (Collier's Encyclopedia, 1977, vol. 13, p. 573).

                        Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia (1970): "In 1970 the Israeli Knesset adopted legislation defining a Jew as one born of a Jewish mother or a convert" (vol. 14, p. 214).

                        H.G. Wells: "There can be little doubt that the scattered Phoenicians in Spain and Africa and throughout the Mediterranean, speaking as they did a language closely akin to Hebrew and being deprived of their authentic political rights, became proselytes to Judaism. For phases of vigorous proselytism alternated with phases of exclusive jealousy in Jewish history. On one occasion the Idumeans, being conquered, were all forcibly made Jews. There were Arab tribes who were Jews in the time of Muhammad, and a Turkish people who were mainly Jews in South Russia in the ninth century. Judaism is indeed the reconstructed political ideal of many shattered peoples - mainly Semitic.... The main part of Jewry never was in Judea and had never come out of Judea" (The Outline of History, p. 505).

                        John Bray: "Many Christians do not know that the vast majority of so-called Jews in the world today are the Ashkenazim Jews, while the remainder of them are the Sephardim Jews. The Ashkenazim Jews have as their background not the nation of Israel but a country called Khazaria, which country at one time was the largest country in Europe. The settlers of Khazaria were Turks and Huns. In A.D. 740 King Bulan of Khazaria decided to adopt the Judaistic religion for his country. A number of Jews were already living there. So he converted to Judaism, along with all his officials, and whole nation ended up being known as a nation of Jews. In 970, Russia came in and dominated the situation, and the Khazars were scattered, many of them going down into Poland and Lithuania. Where at the dawn of our modern civilization the largest concentration of Jews were found. Today, the largest percentage of so-called Jews in the world have as their background this group of people" (This information is fully documented in detail in John Bray's book, Israel in Bible Prophecy).

                        Today, being a Jew simply means that one is of the Judaistic religion or a convert to it, or else in a "brotherhood" of those who are. Therefore, being a Jew has nothing to do with race. We are familiar with a number of notable figures, such as Sammy Davis, Jr., Elizabeth Taylor, Madonna, and Tom Arnold, in fact, who became Jews by conversion to the religion of Judaism.

                        Therefore, we can clearly and confidently assert that there is no such thing as a Jewish race, nor ever can there be. Since the fall of Jerusalem, and the scattering of the nation of Israel in the first century, the nation calling itself Israel has consisted of a collection of people from nearly every nation in the world, with no relation to the twelve tribes of the historical nation known as Israel. Any attempts to state that there is, or will ever again be, a race of Israelites are proven to be futile and of no force. There is no Jewish race.

                        What should a follower of Christ think of Jews?
                        Romans 2:28-29, [COLOR=#0000ff]"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."[/COLOR]



                        Followers of Christ ARE Jews! Followers of Christ have not REPLACED Israel…the followers of Christ ARE Israel. Spiritual Israel.


                        Who Are God's Chosen People?
                        I'm sorry but those are not primary sources. You stated: "Rome destroyed all Jewish geneological records in A.D. 70." I am looking for evidence for that claim. None of your tertiary sources cite any primary sources. Your sources address race. I am not asking about race.
                        Comment>

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Origen View Post
                          I'm sorry but those are not primary sources. You stated: "Rome destroyed all Jewish geneological records in A.D. 70." I am looking for evidence for that claim. None of your tertiary sources cite any primary sources. Your sources address race. I am not asking about race.
                          Josephus claimed the Temple was a repository for the archives, housing the genealogical records of tribal and family descent and inheritance rights, was put to the fire. the legal means for establishing the lineage of members of the Messianic tribe of Judah and the priestly tribe of Levi came to an end.

                          Comment>

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Parousia70 View Post
                            Josephus claimed the Temple was a repository for the archives, housing the genealogical records of tribal and family descent and inheritance rights, was put to the fire. the legal means for establishing the lineage of members of the Messianic tribe of Judah and the priestly tribe of Levi came to an end.
                            So Josephus says that genealogical records were keep in the temple. Where does he make that claim?
                            Comment>

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Origen View Post
                              So Josephus says that genealogical records were keep in the temple. Where does he make that claim?
                              To that offer of Titus they made this reply: That they could not accept of it, because they had sworn never to do so; but they desired they might have leave to go through the wall that had been made about them, with their wives and children; for that they would go into the desert, and leave the city to him. At this Titus had great indignation, that when they were in the case of men already taken captives, they should pretend to make their own terms with him, as if they had been conquerors. So he ordered this proclamation to be made to them, That they should no more come out to him as deserters, nor hope for any further security; for that he would henceforth spare nobody, but fight them with his whole army; and that they must save themselves as well as they could; for that he would from henceforth treat them according to the laws of war. So he gave orders to the soldiers both to burn and to plunder the city; who did nothing indeed that day; but on the next day they set fire to the repository of the archives, to Acra, to the council-house, and to the place called Ophlas; at which time the fire proceeded as far as the palace of queen Helena, which was in the middle of Acra; the lanes also were burnt down, as were also those houses that were full of the dead bodies of such as were destroyed by famine.

                              The War Of The Jews 6:354
                              Comment>
                              Working...
                              X
                              Articles - News - SiteMap