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Dispensation of the Fulness of Times

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  • Dispensation of the Fulness of Times

    Be careful how that word "dispensationalism" is thrown about. "Dispy" is a derogatory term, apparently from those of the Reformed faith, and is not a good thing. It is degrading and offensive. Refer to Ephesians 1:7-12, which deals with redemption by the Son and mentions the dispensation of the fullness of times, or the progression of the end times through to eternity. Dispensationalism in the Bible, is used in this way. It is a description of how we are redeemed by the Son. Ephesians 1:13-14 is our assurance of redemption by being sealed by the Spirit. Ephesians 1:15-23 is prayer for revelation in the knowledge of Him. Dispensation is a word not to be used lightly or recklessly.

    In Colossians 1:24-29, it is not church leaders who are preeminent in the church, but Christ. The word "dispensation" appears four times and in each case from the Greek oikonomia, which can be translated "stewardship", especially with a household or estate. For Ephesians 1:7-12, it would then mean stewardship over the knowledge of the fulness of times. The best way to have this kind of stewardship is to extract the knowledge from the Bible for ourselves. It does not say in the Bible to leave this up to teachers and preachers alone, but to everyone who is a believer as the context clearly explains in Ephesians 1:3-23. I addition, these verses are also confirming that God elects whosoever He will, not man doing the choosing (no free will choosing salvation).

  • #2
    Dipsy is merely an abbreviation for a long term.

    Dispensationalism is the doctrine that God has two concurrent plans, one for the Christian and another for the Rabbinic Jew. Most Dispensationalists picked up this doctrine from Preachers, especially sensationalistic televangelists, not from the Bible. So, there's a point for not leaving learning the Bible to teachers and preachers. And, I don't see how you get from Colossians 1:24-29 any sort of statement against teachers and preachers, especially when that very same passage has Paul referring to himself as a minister, as he teaches us.

    Dispensationalism appears to contradict the Bible's use of the word dispensation, such as found in Ephesians 1:10; that is, Jesus is God's plan to unite all things in heaven heaven and earth. There is no plan for Rabbinic Jews. And, Priestly Jews were just a path to the incarnation of Christ.






    Last edited by Cornelius; 04-27-2015, 04:45 PM.
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    • #3
      I personally never claimed to be against preachers and teachers, but to be sure that what they say is scriptural. I never personally made any comment regarding the Jews and believing Gentiles regarding the two plans. What you say they say, I know nothing about, so I don't bring that up. I bring up what I read in the Bible, not what "Dispensationalists" say. If I agree with them, it is by the fact that their point is in the Bible. Otherwise, I make no comment. "Premillennial" is more accurate, at least where I am concerned with regard to what happens when. I said the millennium is literal. We already disagreed on that point, so no sense rehashing it. We just disagree. The fulness of times covers that point no matter which way we believe.
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      • #4
        The way Apostle Paul used the word "dispensation", it simply meant 'administration' or 'stewardship', which is the actual meaning of the word in the Greek manuscripts. Apostle Paul was particularly called by Jesus to preach The Gospel to the Gentiles, but not them only, but also to kings, and to the children of Israel (as per Acts 9).

        So WHY... did those like John Darby in 1830's Great Britain feel the need to create a whole NEW doctrine out of Paul's usage of Greek oikonomia (dispensation)?

        The answer is actually very simple; Darby did that in order to create more support for his Pre-tribulational Rapture theory.

        Darby's Dispensationalism created a divide against the Bible's written one time return of our Lord Jesus Christ to gather His Church, from both Heaven and from the earth at the same time, to be with Him.

        What's actually written in God's Word that is to occur is, our Lord Jesus comes after the tribulation to gather His saints (from Heaven and from the earth), to go to... Jerusalem (Zech.14), and then His Millennial reign immediately begins at that point, on earth, with His elect Church of both... believing Israelite and believing Gentile (Rev.20; Ezek.40-47). The division between unbelievers and Him and His elect is actually going to be here, on earth, the unbelievers cast to the "outer darkness" outside the city gates of Jerusalem, as written in Rev.22:14-15, Matt.8:12, 25:30, 22:13.

        Lot of the details of that is written in the OT Books of the prophets, which goes with what Jesus gave us in His Revelation. Too many brethren clearly haven't studied that.
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        • #5
          Much of what you say, I agree with, but I don't know what Darby said, nor do I care because I learned what I learned from the Bible. When Jesus comes to the earth at His second coming, He is accompanied to the battle of Armageddon by His saints on white horses and in white raiment. Those saints are from the pre-tribualtion rapture and those who were martyred during the tribulation.
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          • #6
            The dispensational theory came from Darby, who claimed to have gotten it from The Bible. I didn't know you weren't aware of that.

            In some Churches it has been taught since the 1800's as if... it were a Bible doctrine, but in reality that's when that theory started from Darby's writings.




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            • #7
              I got it from the Bible. I never heard of Darby until this forum. Apparently, Darby and I share the same truth, but by coincidence. As far as I am concerned, then, it comes from the Bible, not Darby, since I was not even aware of him. The teachings I read from scripture. Later, I found others who agreed, but did not put the doctrine into my head. I am sorry, but I can't trust what any man teaches over what the Bible teaches, whether they agree with me or not, the Bible is the final answer. The Holy Spirit is my teacher. And this claim bothers a few people, but I have found those who make the same claim, yet agree with me for the same reasons.
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              • #8
                I wouldn't be so quick to jump on Darby's bandwagon. The doctrine itself is connected to Darby's pre-trib rapture theory, an idea he got from the Edward Irvingite Church movement in the 1830's, and a doctrine which the Christian Church never had prior to that time.

                Scripture used to try and support that is taken out of the Biblical context where it appears. I'm sure you've heard others declare this to you before.

                The minute one mentions the rapture of the Church with unbelieving Jews "left-behind" on earth to have a separate restored kingdom without Jesus, the whole theory falls flat, because that's part of Darby's theory that is not... written in The Bible. So no, you didn't just get those things from The Bible.
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                • #9
                  Yes I did. Forget about Darby, will you? I am not a liar. If I say I got my doctrine from the Bible, you can take that to the bank. All believers are raptured, including Messianic Jews. all unbelievers are left behind, Jews or not. I don't care what these guys you bring up say. I am telling it to you straight: I got this from the Bible. I don't know everything in the Bible, true, but what I profess to know, I know from the scriptures; otherwise, I say, "I don't know."
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                  • #10
                    There is no Biblical evidence of the pre-trib rapture you speak of. You simply have yet to understand what the "caught up" event in 1 Thess.4 is about. I'm being honest with you, not trying to toy with you. If you believe on Jesus Christ then we are brethren. So I don't want to sound like I'm trying to put you in straights or anything.

                    A deeper study in the OT prophets along with... the New Testament Books, especially what Apostle Paul taught us in 2 Cor.5 and 1 Cor.15 about our makeup, reveals what the "caught up" event is really about.

                    It is about the dimension of the Heavenly realm opening up on the day of Christ's second coming. Though most interpret 1 Cor.15 of the 'change' to the "spiritual body" Paul taught is only for the Church, in reality it is going to happen to all... peoples on earth, including the unbelieving (all nations, Isaiah 25, which is where Paul got the idea of death being swallowed up).

                    The difference is that the unbelievers will not... be gathered to Jesus. There will be a separation upon the earth, like Jesus taught about the goats on the right and left hand. That will occur on earth, with the Heavenly dimension revealed right here, on earth, and only on the day of His return after the tribulation. This is why we are shown in Zech.14 that our Lord Jesus (and us with Him) on that LAST DAY will go to Jerusalem on earth, not after a 7 year tribulation, but at the end... of the tribulation which is when Jesus showed us He returns in Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:26-27.

                    This is why the Matt.24 and Mark 13 Scripture is about the last days, and not historical. It covers Paul's "caught up" idea with the saints in Heaven gathered, and the saints still alive on earth gathered. But one must look and compare both of those chapters to realize that, and by that it aligns with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about the 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him from Heaven, and then those of us still alive on earth being "caught up" (in our spiritual bodies) to be with Jesus on the way to Jerusalem on earth (as per Zech.14). Then starts Christ's Millennial reign with His elect. That will occur on the last day, with the battle of Armageddon being the culminating event, all on the "day of the Lord" timing, covered by both the OT prophets, and by our Lord Jesus, and by His Apostles.

                    Thus is a great abundance of Biblical Scripture that signify those very events, but most either never get to them in their Bible study, or they are taught other doctrines in many of today's Churches (most of that is too controversial or deep for most preachers to teach in the Churches).

                    That's the part those on that pre-trib rapture theory are missing from disciplined study in all of God's Word.

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