Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship!
Christforums' StaffRegister now
Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy. Register now
John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Anyone an Avengers fan? Ya know the character J.A.R.V.I.S. which was an A.I. computer that merged into a machine body to become more autonomous? This made my imagination run especially in a day or age when Artificial Intelligence is being implemented in "Search" engines or systems. Can't wait for the day that I can create a "profile" of a target demographic based on certain behavior, etc., and have the A.I. system search out the web including social media for people which fit a match. Perhaps I want to target an object which might be an automobile enthusiasts with outdated automobiles or just those old car enthusiasts which promote competitive ideology towards green technology in the automobile industry. Here's where the fun begins, the system then "markets" to the target person or people. Sending this particular object information to email, even pitching ideas to them in the search engines by only returning counter arguments to gas engine cars, and by utilizing ads in which to soften them up or make them more "attractive" for the next phase. The overcoming of objections phase leads into the ideal A.I. system's next step, an autonomous car is then dispatched from a major auto manufacturer. The car drives itself while being provided navigation and instruction by the A.I. system and then the car parks itself in front of the target person's residence. The autonomous car waits until the target object come out and then follows them everywhere they go. The car whines up its electric engine challenging these old school car enthusiasts with their gas powered engines which are polluting the environment at every red light.
Hopefully, this "Green Light" technology ultimately ends up in higher sales!
The technology and application are endless!
Sound familiar? That is, the incarnation part? The A.I. incarnating into a machine body? It shouldn't, this was rejected by ancient philosophers back in the day thousands of years ago. They said the divine could never come into contact with the flesh. That is, the Logos could never take upon a human flesh body and walk upon the earth. Who ever thought that an artificial attribute of God could incarnate into a mechanical body?
I remember some 15 years ago when I was hospitalized and in group therapy. A counselor asked the group to express how we felt in the moment. Each went in order and then the patient before me expressed his necessity to leave the hospital. There were obvious concerns in his life, he was greatly agitated. Then it was my turn. I expressed an annoyance too. There was a fly buzzing around in the room. I asked the counselor whether they knew that a typical house fly only lived for two days? She looked intrigued and asked me to go on. I said, the fly lives for two days and all I want to do is to kill it. The gentlemen before me repeated his desire to leave the hospital actually now seemingly bothered by what I said. Then I once again followed up with did you know a fly only lives for two days, and all I want to do is to kill it? He responded directly to me and said, yea, I heard you the first time. He didn’t ask or nobody else asked for me to explain myself, thus I interpreted the very inaction as nobody really cared not even the counselor. Perhaps If I could rewind time I would share what I have learned. It is our tendency to fix things especially among men. We feel an urgency or desire to fix problems in life. But fact is, life has a way of working things out in time. Life will run its course. Therefore, the urgency to kill the fly is simply my desire and want to fix things according to how I want them to be. In two days life will run its course and the problem fly which is annoying me in the moment will be resolved.
CF Epistle (Parody)
TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCESS, Becky, by the Grace of God, Administrator of Christforums [DOT] ORG, NET, and COM, DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, etc. The MEMBERS and STAFF of CF wish Grace, Mercy, and Peace through JESUS CHRIST our Lord.
(1) Great and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the Administrator of CF, when first he sent His Admin to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many TROLLS, who wished not well unto our WebSite, that upon the settling of that bright Occidental Star, of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this Site, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk; and it should hardly be known, who was to direct the unsettled members and staff; the appearance of His Admin, as of the Sun in her strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the TOS established in Your Highness, and Your hopeful Staff, by an undoubted Title, and this also accompanied with peace and tranquility at home and abroad....
The Lord of heaven and earth bless our Administrator with many and happy days, that, as her heavenly hand hath enriched our Staff and members with many singular and extraordinary graces, so she may be the wonder of this site in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great God, and the good of CF, through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Saviour.
Administrators: @Becky and her role as a volunteer:
Answers incoming member email or messages regarding general staff or member issues, technical problems, service questions and general member concerns.
Responsible for maintaining a high level of professionalism with members and working to establish a positive rapport with every member.
Update member profile information or assist in customer service.
Work with the staff moderator team so that they may stay updated on any changes in site policies.
Address member issues with moderators assist moderators with problematic members.
Moderators: @Origen @ConfessionalLutheran @David Lee @davidtaylorjr and roles as volunteers:
The members of a forum convene to discuss specific topics and it is the duty of the moderator to encourage lively debate and discussion that is enriching to all participants. The moderator also answers questions that may arise in the course of the discussion. In online forums, moderators also have a duty to update the website with all the latest developments.
Topic Control: Every forum has topics and it is up to the moderator to ensure that the discussion stays within the topic's parameters. For example, if the topic of thread in a forum is omniscience, the discussion needs to stay within the boundaries of such an attribute and cannot extend towards your favorite Christian TV show. In the event that the thread appears to be straying, the moderator guides the discussion back to the stated topic.Therefore, moderators ought to be knowledgeable about the topics they present or allow for discussion.
Orderly Conduct: It is the responsibility of a moderator to maintain order during discussions and to see to it that all participants behave with courtesy. Forums involve the exchange of ideas whereby participants air their views and sometimes engage in debates about the identified topics. Therefore, there is a possibility of the discussion becoming unruly particularly where the forum topic is controversial. Moderators order the forum by keeping the discussion civil and constructive. They share the rules of the forum, which may prohibit abusive language, derogatory comments and such other offensive behavior.
Content Relevance: A moderator has authority to determine the content of a forum so that it is relevant. The duty is especially useful in online forums where the moderator can edit the content of the discussion, move contributions that are not directly related to a given topic and even delete contributions that are not relevant. The moderator also protects the integrity of the discussion by doing away with contributions that are unlawful or illegal in any way such as defamatory statements and copyright infringements. Forums gain more popularity when the content therein is consistently relevant to participants.
Webmaster: @William and description of duties:
Build a functional CF site and oversee the maintenance and ensure interoperability.
Test and maintain CF across multiple browsers, operating systems, and devices.
Maintain, configure and troubleshoot the server which CF resides.
Ensure site security.
Optimize loading speeds and capacity of CF.
Update website software.
Monitor and analyze site performance (e.g traffic, conversions).
In the next few minutes, we'd like to take the opportunity to help you get to know us better. We're Christforums.org or CF. Our purpose is simple:
to bring glory to God through our website to and from individual lives
to make known to the world the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ
Committed to God
You'll find Christforums' staff and members are called to demonstrate the love of God and the relevance of Christ's message of deliverance to a society that is weary of sin, hollow materialism, and shattered relationships.
We enjoy meeting together online to worship our Creator and Redeemer. God's people adore him, bring him thanks, ask for his help, and receive the blessing of his presence. Through studying of the gospel, God announces his saving acts and calls people to believing and obedient response to his Word.
Through faithful teaching, our members grow spiritually. We seek to obey God's laws because such obedience pleases him. So we not only embrace the teaching of God's Word, but also strive to demonstrate its application in our lives.
Our members care about people. We show concern for the poor and for victims of such catastrophes as famines and earthquakes. We'll show you this love and concern as you involve yourself with us. Our goal and purpose can be summed up in the motto, "Preaching all of God's Word; sharing all of Christ's love."
Grounded in Scripture
Our modern age has witnessed the progressive rejection of authority. God's Word, the Bible, has not been spared. However, Christforums believes that the Bible is the authoritative Word of God, the only infallible rule for our faith and conduct.
We believe that the Bible alone gives us the correct knowledge of who God is and how we may please him. It teaches that God the Father gave up his Son Jesus Christ to death on the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of his people. We want to share with you the joy that comes from a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
The doctrine of our staff is summarized in the following paragraphs:
The Bible, having been inspired by God, is entirely trustworthy and without error. Therefore, we are to believe and obey its teachings. The Bible is the only source of special revelation for the church today.
The one true God is personal, yet beyond our comprehension. He is an invisible spirit, completely self-sufficient and unbounded by space or time, perfectly holy and just, and loving and merciful. In the unity of the Godhead there are three “persons”: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
God created the heavens and the earth, and all they contain. He upholds and governs them in accordance with his eternal will. God is sovereign (in complete control) yet this does not diminish human responsibility.
Because of the sin of the first man, Adam, all mankind is corrupt by nature, dead in sin, and subject to the wrath of God. But God determined, by a covenant of grace, that sinners may receive forgiveness and eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ has always been the only way of salvation, in both Old Testament and New Testament times.
The Son of God took upon himself a human nature in the womb of the virgin Mary, so that in her son Jesus the divine and human natures were united in one person. Jesus Christ lived a sinless life and died on a cross, bearing the sins of, and receiving God’s wrath for, all those who trust in him for salvation (his chosen ones). He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, where he sits as Lord and rules over his kingdom (the church). He will return to judge the living and the dead, bringing his people (with glorious, resurrected bodies) into eternal life, and consigning the wicked to eternal punishment.
Those whom God has predestined unto life are effectually drawn to Christ by the inner working of the Spirit as they hear the gospel. When they believe in Christ, God declares them righteous (justifies them), pardoning their sins and accepting them as righteous, not because of any righteousness of their own, but by imputing Christ’s merits to them. They are adopted as the children of God and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who sanctifies them, enabling them increasingly to stop sinning and act righteously. They repent of their sins (both at their conversion and thereafter), produce good works as the fruit of their faith, and persevere to the end in communion with Christ, with assurance of their salvation.
Believers strive to keep God’s moral law, which is summarized in the Ten Commandments, not to earn salvation, but because they love their Savior and want to obey him. God is the Lord of the conscience, so that men are not required to believe or do anything contrary to, or in addition to, the Word of God in matters of faith or worship.
Christ has established his church, and particular churches, to gather and perfect his people, by means of the ministry of the Word, the sacraments of baptism (which is to be administered to the children of believers, as well as believers) and the Lord’s Supper (in which the body and blood of Christ are spiritually present to the faith of believers), and the disciplining of members found delinquent in doctrine or life. Christians assemble on the Lord’s Day to worship God by praying, hearing the Word of God read and preached, singing psalms and hymns, and receiving the sacraments.
The history of the Christian church is replete with vigorous debate over what should be included in our core beliefs. Indeed, the creeds or confessions of faith have been a means both to test orthodoxy and by which to pass on our faith. Here are the ecumenical creeds which we rely on heavily to test orthodoxy:
I am sure that all of the one of you who read this blog are asking yourself, "Do we really need to keep God at the center of our celebration of any holiday?" Well, here is a holiday that will allow us to explore that in a bit more detail.
"Valentine's Day" (February 14th), or otherwise known as, "Saint Valentine's Day". This holiday, it should be noted, started as yet another Feast Day. Though, this is a rare occurrence where more than one person was celebrated on the day in question. There were possibly two or three different individuals that were remembered on this day. This is also a rare occurrence that all of the individuals celebrated on this day were neither born nor died on this day. However, there is very little historical record to rely on to know specifically who is being remembered.
Regardless, the day eventually became what we know it as today. An arguably more secular holiday where we celebrate romantic love. The origin of which really dates back to Geoffrey Chaucer in the "High Middle Ages". Though, it is also important to mention a legend that involves at least one of the Saint Valentines the day was set aside for, where during the 3rd or 4th century AD the Roman Emperor, Claudius II, had decreed that none of the young soldiers in his army were permitted to marry under the belief that they made better soldiers than their married counterparts. Saint Valentine took it upon himself to secretly perform wedding ceremonies for those young soldiers who wished to be married. The Emperor eventually found out, of course, and had Saint Valentine thrown in prison.
But should we as Christians celebrate a holiday that has become much more secular than spiritual? Well, that depends. Are we able to bring God back into the holiday in a way where, even though we have couples celebrating their love for each other, we can still bring the glory back to Him? Of course it is quite possible. It simply depends on where your focus is when you are celebrating.
It is important to note, however, that what is being celebrated is romantic love, which, biblically, should only be reserved for married couples. Otherwise you are venturing into a perversion of this kind of affection. Also, even though it may seem innocent enough, should children really be participating in the celebration of this holiday? What this really raises the issue of is dating and whether or not it is biblically appropriate. Of course in today's society it is perfectly acceptable, even for children as young as ten years of age, to have a girlfriend or boyfriend. But was this something that was intended by God, and as Christians should we be endorsing it, even when considering something as seemingly benign as the celebration of a holiday? There is, arguably, no biblical support for dating, though many Christians do participate in it and in its more formal counterpart, courting.
This all really comes down to personal preference, but should we really do anything if there is no biblical support for it? Personally, I see no reason to allow a child, even in their teens, to participate if, as a parent, you are not going to allow them to date since it would only incite confusion.
Coming back to the main point, there is certainly nothing in the bible that speaks against celebrating the love between two people whom God has brought together and joined in holy matrimony, as long as we keep that in mind in our celebration and give God the deserved glory.
Palm Sunday, the Sunday prior to Resurrection Sunday, is the day Jesus enters Jerusalem on the back of a colt. Upon His entry into the city the Jews, believing He was coming to liberate them from the Romans, lined the streets in celebration waving palm branches and laying them, and in some cases their cloaks, on the ground for Jesus to ride over. They were anticipating something momentous, yet what they were anticipating and what ended up happening wasn't anywhere even close. The Jews believed He would be their savior from decades, if not centuries, of living under the oppressive rule of one after another conquering nation. Rome was just the latest of many.
But that is not what Jesus came to do. What God had planned was astronomically more important than delivering one small nation from being a scattered, oppressed people. What ended up happening on a human level was it became clear that Jesus had no intention of establishing, or reestablishing, a kingdom just for the Jews with Himself as their king, therefore, the Jewish leaders sought to discredit Jesus and had Him executed. So, on a human level, as far as the Jews were concerned, Palm Sunday was just a glaring reminder of a huge disappointment. So, there is no reason why, based on this example, the Jews should celebrate this holiday.
However, what really was going on was much more powerful and exceedingly more important. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on that day to face the culmination of, and the fulfillment of, His ministry on this earth. It was to save mankind from death and sin, a much more powerful and debilitating oppressor than the Romans could have ever hoped to have been, though they certainly did try. Palm Sunday is, in Christianity, the beginning of Passion Week, which brings the end of the season of Lent, which ends on Maundy Thursday (Holy Thursday), and includes the betrayal, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is, arguably, the one event in the history of the world, much less the Christian Church, that should be celebrated as it is the impetus for the Christian religion, and the foundation on which Christianity is built.
So, the answer to the question: Should Christians celebrate Palm Sunday? Is most certainly a big: Yes!
St Patrick's Day (March 17th) is probably the most recognized of the many Feast Days, followed closely by St Valentine's Day. This was a day set aside to commemorate an individual who was instrumental in spreading the good news of Salvation to an, as yet, untapped area of the world, Ireland. Though it is, as in many cases, quite unique how God brought about this occurrence. St Patrick was born in 387 AD to a rich family living on the island of Brittania (England) back when it was still controlled by the Romans. When he was about 16 years old he was abducted by Irish raiders and taken into captivity in Ireland. According to his Confession he had a dream where God told him to escape from his captivity and go back to Brittania. He successfully escaped and eventually made it a monastery in Gaul (France) where he studied to become a priest. In 432 he had another dream where God told him to go back to Ireland and spread the Gospel to the Pagan, Polytheistic, people living there. One noteable aspect of St Patrick's teaching methods was to use the shamrock (clover) to explain the Trinity.
One thing is certainly obvious when looking at this example of God's providence and mercy is how we can see God's hand throughout St Patrick's entire life and how He brought about His plan to spread His message of Salvation to another corner of the world. And as part of the observance of the feast day of St Patrick we can praise God and give Him glory for another miraculous example of faith and mercy. Of course it is not really miraculous for God, it just seems that way on a human level.
But what about what this feast day has become? What started out as a commemoration of the life of St Patrick became more of a celebration of Irish culture and heritage, and ultimately another "drinking holiday." Of course how you decide to celebrate is a matter of personal preference, but it is important why you are celebrating. As a Christian really the only reason to celebrate is to bring glory, honor and praise to God for the good work He accomplished through his servant, St Patrick. If it is just another reason to drink alcohol, and possibly get drunk, then some addition consideration should be made toward celebrating at all. There is nothing wrong with imbibing in alcoholic beverages as long as it is done in moderation. After all, you get an exemption from the Catholic Church during the Lent season's requirement of abstaining from drinking alcohol, so why not take advantage of it?
In regard to celebrating Irish culture, it seems rather odd that this should be celebrated on this holiday considering St Patrick was not even born in Ireland. Yes, St Patrick did become the Patron Saint of Ireland, but the focus is, arguably, in the wrong place when observing this feast day.
To reiterate, the only reason for a Christian to observe this feast day is to praise God for the work He did through St Patrick, in Ireland. Any other reason would be a waste of time.
Lent is a period of 40 days and nights, the example of which comes from Christ's time he fasted in the desert up to His temptation by satan and embarkation of his ministry as well as the time Moses spent fasting on Mount Sinai when he received the first copies of the tablets with the Ten Commandments. This period begins on Ash Wednesday and ends on Holy Thursday (the day before Christ's crucifixion). The dates for these events are determined by a resolution made at the Council of Nicaea of 325 AD, where Resurrection Sunday falls on the Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon (the first full moon on or after the vernal (spring) equinox). Then Ash Wednesday is set 40 days prior to Holy Thursday, which is, of course, three days prior to Resurrection Sunday.
Ash Wednesday is preceded by the festival of Mardi Gras, or Fat Tuesday. The idea behind Mardi Gras is to allow yourself one more day of basically doing whatever you want, within reason, before embarking on the solemn observance of Lent. We will explore a little bit more about this philosophy later in this post.
First let us take a look at Ash Wednesday. The ash used for this day comes from the palm branches that were burned after being used during the previous years Palm Sunday, when Jesus rides into Jerusalem on a colt, to great acclaim with people lining the streets waving the palms branches and laying them, and their cloaks, on the road in front of Him.
On Ash Wednesday it is traditional to place this ash on your forehead to symbolize your remorse and repentance of your sins. At this point we should explore the wisdom of this practice. Of course if you are going to observe Lent it is a good idea to reflect on what you are repenting of but if we use the example of Jesus criticizing the Pharisees for making their prayers a public spectacle rather than praying in private, we should consider not participating in any overt or outward sign that we are beginning this personal journey.
And in His teaching He said, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."
I would suggest if you are going to participate in Ash Wednesday do not put the ash on your forehead but either forgo that tradition or put it somewhere that is less visible. After all, as Christians, we are supposed to be known by our fruit, not a superficial tradition.
During Lent, as a whole, a Christian is required to fast, again based on the example given by Jesus and Moses, and reflect on any specific sin that God has put on your heart to repent of and ask for forgiveness. Traditionally the type of fasting that is observed is to eat a sensible dinner while the other two meals during the day (breakfast and lunch) are not supposed to, in combination, exceed the amount of the evening meal. Also, there are some who do not eat red meat or other things for this 40 day period. Some people also abstain from drinking alcohol, or sex. Though, many make an exception to the alcohol rule in the observance of St. Patrick's Day (March 17th). There are also those that will, in addition to the above, give something up for this time period.
All of this is well and good if you are using this time to make a more concerted effort to focus on your spiritual growth, however, if this time is only being observed to "cover yourself till next year" then why bother? Which brings us back to Mardi Gras.
Mardi Gras, as mentioned, is basically the French festival - though it is observed in many other parts of the world, not just France, such as New Orleans - where you pretty much have carte blanche to do anything you want, within reason, before doing your annual repentance and request for forgiveness. However, if this is the attitude there is no point in observing Lent as it is then obvious you are not truly repentant of whatever sin you are focusing on. Also, since all of this is tied to Christianity there is no real point for the secular world to even consider it. Of course Mardi Gras is a large event in many cities around the world, and to a certain extent, part of their economies.
But really this comes down to motivation. If the motivation is to build on your continuing spiritual growth then, by all means, use this time to do so. Though if the attitude is that this is a time to make an "annual deposit" I suggest a serious reconsideration as your heart may not be in the right place.
Feast Days are those in which the Catholic Church, whether it is a local congregation or the Vatican itself, set aside to commemorate those who made significant contributions to the growth of the church, especially during its most formative years. Many were martyrs and the like and the day on which their feast falls corresponds with either their date of birth, or more routinely, the day they died. But should we as Christians celebrate these feast days.
Sure, we as humans love a good celebration. And why not celebrate the sacrifice made by some of the more iconic members of the church? After all, in many cases, these individuals gave their lives for what they believed in. But we should first ask ourselves would many of these individuals want this kind of fuss made over them? I am quite certain, based on the many insights that can be gleaned from his letters, Paul would be completely appalled to think anyone would celebrate a feast in his honor. He would be the first to point out that if it were not for the Grace of God he would still be known as one of the hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus dueled with on many occasions in His time on this earth. And that there is nothing that has been accomplished on Paul's missionary journeys that cannot be attributed to God working through him; therefore, it is not Paul who should be receiving the praise for any of his accomplishments, but God. So by celebrating a feast day specifically because of one person's accomplishments means that the emphasis is misplaced.
Should we celebrate feast days? Maybe. But let us make sure we are directing our praise in the right direction. There is one feast day that comes to mind that has completely lost its purpose. That being St Patrick's Day (March 17th). This "holiday" has become something completely contrary to what it started out as. This holiday was to commemorate the efforts of a man that brought Christianity to Ireland, and yet has become an excuse for people to get drunk. Would this man really be pleased with how this day is currently celebrated?
As mentioned in the original Holiday post, when considering the celebration of a certain person or event it is important not to break the 2nd Commandment by making an idol out of someone or something. The focus should always remain where it should be. On God.
This post is to spark a series on holidays. Mostly holidays that are celebrated in the United States, though it is possible I may expand into holidays celebrated in other countries. The main thing I would like to discuss is what are the holidays we have around us and whether or not, as Christians, we should participate/celebrate these various holidays.
While looking at these various holidays it will be important to take a look at their origins to better understand what is being celebrated and why. So it is not without precedence that we take a look at the history and concept of the word "holiday". Though the origins of the word "holiday" are traced back to an old English word "hāligdæg" we can agree the concept of it goes back much further than when the word we use was invented.
The word itself literally means "holy day" yet a religious event is not necessarily being celebrated on every holiday. On many holidays what may be celebrated could be any of the following: the anniversary of an important battle, the death or birth of an important person, the anniversary of a country gaining its independence, the founding of a city or town, the harvest of a particularly bountiful crop, or any myriad of other reasons. The point being that even though the day may have the title of "holy day" applied to it, it may not necessarily have anything to do with any kind of religious aspect other than the fact that it is celebrated every year.
The question ultimately comes down to, "Should we, as Christians, celebrate a specific holiday?" Well, this can be further clarified with the following consideration: Is it possible to bring honor and glory to God when observing/celebrating the holiday? If not then there really would be no purpose to celebrating it in the first place. You could also go so far as to say you could be at risk of breaking the 2nd commandment.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6
As we look at many of the different holidays we need to keep this in mind. Some may be easier than others when considering this aspect but, nevertheless, it is quite important.
Some additional points from the Westminster Larger Catechism
Q. 108. What are the duties required in the second commandment?
A. The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath instituted in his Word; particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ; the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word; the administration and receiving of the sacraments; church government and discipline; the ministry and maintenance thereof; religious fasting; swearing by the name of God, and vowing unto him; as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing all false worship; and, according to each one's place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.
Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counseling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshiping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them; all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretense whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.
Q. 110. What are the reasons annexed to the second commandment, the more to enforce it?
A. The reasons annexed to the second commandment, the more to enforce it, contained in these words, For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments; are, besides God's sovereignty over us, and propriety in us, his fervent zeal for his own worship, as being a spiritual whoredom; accounting the breakers of this commandment such as hate him, and threatening to punish them unto divers generations; and esteeming the observers of it such as love him and keep his commandments, and promising mercy to them unto many generation.
Bullying, obviously, is the act of one or more persons asserting their perceived dominance over another person or group of people. It has gone on throughout time and has been instrumental in making the world what it is today. Various forms have been employed from the schoolyard to the battlefield. The most common motivations for it are envy, greed, and power. Of course the question is, what would the world look like if bullying was not part of the fabric of humanity? Some have asserted that bullying is a part of life and that it is one of the many things that ultimately define us as human beings. But should we accept it as that?
I have certainly experienced my share of bullying throughout grade school and into high school. I may have received worse than some, but not as bad as others. This is evident in some of the stories heard recently, such as the girl who ended up committing suicide because of some unrelenting cyber-bullying perpetrated by her classmates. Was that necessary?
A more severe example to be considered is war, and the atrocities that go with it. The reasons for war can be attributed to the same reasons as bullying: a desire to obtain land owned by someone else, to assert one country’s power over another, or to wipe out another race or civilization. But is it necessary?
To answer this we must look at the most perfect example of humanity known. That being Jesus Christ. He never used bullying, coercion, extortion, or anything of the sort to achieve His purpose, and yet He was the object of bullying by the Jewish authorities because He did not fulfill their preconceived idea of what their Messiah should be. He was also the subject of bullying by King Herod and other Roman leaders because they perceived Him to be a threat to their authority. They, of course, had no idea of His true purpose. But here we come to the purpose of this post. Though bullying is a cruel and destructive behavior, it is further proof that God can use any situation in order to bring about a greater good. In this case He used what He knew man would do to His Son in order to bring about salvation for mankind.
But again, is bullying necessary? God, as shown in the wonderful example expressed in His word, is able to bring glory out of suffering. But when it comes to how we relate to our fellow man I assert that bullying is not necessary. If we were to truly follow the tenets conveyed in The Bible there would be no bullying as it would be prevented by proper behavior brought about by proper discipline.
In the previous post, which you most likely have read because you love this blog and would never miss a post, you saw that I commented on this article about a lady in the Los Angeles area who erected an over 24 foot high cross in her front yard. I thought I would look again at this article through the lens of the above-referenced passage.
Sure, the apparent motivation, contrary to what the article states, of this lady is to tell her surrounding neighbors that she is a Christian. This is something I will not try to confirm or refute as it is not my place, but I wonder if she truly considered the impact that having this cross in her front yard is actually having on any of her neighbors (which can be considered to be anyone she may come in contact with, or who would see the cross for that matter). Though she may consider that she is just being a witness for Christ in her community, she may also be, unintentionally, accomplishing quite the opposite. On the one hand erecting this cross could be considered just as benign as erecting a flag pole just as tall, on the other some might consider it an eyesore. But let us take a look, shall we?
Aside from the height of it, this cross seems rather benign, except for the fact that it is located in someone's front yard, as opposed to the front lawn, or the steeple, of a church. According to the article, this lady's neighbors believe the cross is causing their property values to go down due to the increase in traffic in the quiet little cul-de-sac this house is located. Of course property values is a rather subjective thing, but do the neighbors have a legitimate complaint?
In addition to the outcry coming from her neighbors, her city is stating that she either needs to take it down or get a permit for it, otherwise she is facing fines that could range up to $3000. Not exactly the kind of example you want to make as a Christian. Is it really a good idea to erect something this big without making sure that it is ok with the local authorities? After all isn't it standard practice to obtain permits when making this big of a change to your property?
However, putting aside the lack of consideration she made in regard to getting permission from the city, has she really put any thought into how this is impacting her neighbors? Would she be just as understanding of her neighbors if they were to erect a giant star of david, or put a budda statue in their front yard?
When I first thought of starting this blog I thought it might be somewhat difficult to come up with specific topics to discuss on a routine basis, such as daily, weekly, or monthly. Then Providence showed me a rather appropriate topic to get the ball rolling. This happened when I came across this article that was posted on the Daily News website that is based in Los Angeles, California. Let's see what topics rise to the top on this one.
The subject of the article is a woman who, having been, reportedly, led by a religious organization that is an off-shoot of the Roman Catholic Church called: the Cross of Love or Friends of the Glorious Cross of Dozulé constructed an almost 25 foot tall cross in her front yard. This group, according to the article, "was launched in the 1980s by members of a church in Dozule, France, who said God told them in a series of apparitions to build crosses to ensure their salvation."
Now, the obvious topic seems to be Salvation in this article, but upon researching this group a bit more I discovered there is much more here than Salvation to discuss. For instance, the author of this article did not report completely what this group is about. Yes, it was founded by a priest of a church in Dozule, France. But that is all they got right. This priest founded this group based on what he reported as apparitions and messages he received from Jesus, that "confirmed" prophecies that were made by a mother in the church, that had experienced an abundance of miraculous interventions. One of the prophecies happened to be just another apocalyptic prediction that didn't come true in the early 80's.
Of course apocalyptic predictions now-a-days are a dime a dozen, which should automatically lend themselves to disbelief by the general populous, but every now and then there are those who take these things seriously. Which, unfortunately, needs to be clarified by a simple truth about the end of the world, and to also reiterate there are false prophets everywhere, and Christians are called to be diligent to identify these individuals as the frauds they are.
It would be simple to just quote a very popular verse from Matthew Chapter 24 that indicates that no one knows when the end of the world will be, but it should be viewed in the entire context of the moment that Jesus is talking to his disciples about the end of the world, which also speaks of not listening to false prophets or those who say, "I am the Christ."
Jesus very clearly, in my humble opinion, articulates his point in this passage. No one, not even Jesus himself, knows when the end of the world will be. Of course there are signs that we can watch for, but God never intended us to constantly be obsessing over the end of the world. We are called to be prepared for it, yes, but not obsess over it. We are supposed to be doing His work, for His honor and glory until that day arrives.
This post has obviously become a bit long, but I welcome any comments and honest discourse in regard to this topic, or any others that may arise out of the article mentioned above, or the passage included here. And, we can also carry further discussions into other posts.
In studying the 9th commandment there are a number of call-outs in regard to how one may knowingly bear false witness against another person. Here are a few:
Slander - or speaking something false about another person
Libel - or publishing something false about another person
Perjury - or providing false testimony, under oath, about another person
Anyone who has spent any amount of time online on a social networking site knows how easy it can be to say something and have it spread like wildfire across that site as well as others. There have been infamous instances of the young people who were cyber-bullied so much they ended up committing suicide.
The 9th commandment speaks to both making direct and indirect false statements. Although, gossip is primarily considered to be done in idle conversation there is another form of it that is quite a bit more troubling and may be overlooked by many Christians. That is including false statements about one or more individuals in the guise of a, seemingly innocent or innocuous, prayer request.
The purpose of a prayer request is to garner support and encouragement from fellow Christians and to open a dialogue with God through more people to convey praise, thanksgiving, needs, wants, etc. What it is not is an opportunity to indirectly air someone's dirty laundry or spread false rumors.
Really, the best way to approach prayer for a fellow Christian when it comes to negative reports about their reputation or character is to pray for guidance and divine intervention for that individual. God already knows what is going on in their life and does not need details.
Also, as mentioned in the catechism questions below, we should be ready to defend our fellow Christian, as well as admonish anyone who is willing to speak ill of them.
Once again it all comes down to how you would want to be treated no matter if any negative reports are true or not.
Note, we are a "fenced" community: Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible- believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non- Nicene, non- Biblical heresy.
We are an orthodox Protestant community whose members espouse the Apostolic doctrines in the Biblical theologies set forth by Augustine, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin and John Knox etc. We do not "argue" with nor do we solicit the membership of people who espouse secular or cultic ideologies. We believe that our conversations are to be faith building and posts that advance heretical or apostate thinking will be immediately deleted and the poster permanently banned from the forum. This is a Christian community for people to explore the traditional theologies of Classical Protestantism. Those who would challenge the peace and harmony that we enjoy here as fellow believers are directed to another website.
Enjoy your fellowship:
In order to understand the importance of Christian fellowship, we must first understand what Christian fellowship is and what it isn’t. The Greek words translated “fellowship” in the New Testament mean essentially a partnership to the mutual benefit of those involved. Christian fellowship, then, is the mutually beneficial relationship between Christians, who can’t have the identical relationship with those outside the faith.
Christforums' Terms of Service:
The providers ("we", "us", "our") of the service provided by this web site ("Service") are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts ("Content"). Content submitted express the views of their author only.
You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.
All Content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential.
We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the Service at any time.
You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content.
These terms may be changed at any time without notice.
If you do not agree with these terms, please do not register or use this Service. If you wish to close your account, please contact us. Also, do not register if you do not agree with the rules below.
Requests to Delete User Profile or Threads:
Your participation on the board is a tacit agreement that your posts will become public. You are not required to post on Christforums but, if you do, your thoughts and opinions (and some identifying information) may become public. Signatures are designed to preserve some public anonymity but some users decide to provide First and Last name. You need to remember this when deciding to make your name public to the internet (along with your opinions). Christforums will not delete your posts or threads you start. You need to remember this. It is part of prudence. Your posts become part of a larger conversation where people may quote you and interact with your thoughts and we cannot be responsible for cleaning up your online activity on our forum. Furthermore, it is not your right to simply remove whole threads where others participated because you either regret writing something or because your thoughts are now showing up on search engines because someone searched for your name. In some cases we will "anonymize" your user profile for you to remove all identifying information but, if you decided to create a username that identified you or created a Signature that made you public we are not responsible for what shows up in search engines nor will we delete all threads that you are later embarrassed or concerned about.
Pause Before You Post:
This is something that everyone can benefit from. Before you send the latest jab, punch, tweak, etc into cyberspace, take a minute (or two, or five) to make sure that you are doing so in a spirit of Christian maturity. Study first, pray, post after.
Use Proper Grammar, Punctuation, and Capitalization:
If English is not your second language, then you are expected to show other board members the courtesy of properly punctuating and capitalizing your posts. It is commonplace on the web to disregard these rules but improper grammar does not demonstrate consideration toward others who are trying to understand what you communicate. Mistakes in grammar are understandable but willful sloth may result in posts being deleted if they are consistently sloppy.
Amendment 1: We ask that posts made in the original biblical languages (Hebrew or Greek) to be offered with an English translation. This, however, should not discourage members from asking for proper translation by others to understand the biblical text in question. At times, someone offering translations may be brought into question. To establish credibility staff may ask someone that offers translation to prove their language skills.
Make sure of the medium as well as the message:
Godliness is founded on truth. A test of truth is its power to promote holiness according to our Savior's rule, "By their fruits ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:20). No opinion can be more pernicious or more absurd than that which brings truth and falsehood upon the same level. On the contrary, there is an inseparable connection between faith and practice, truth and duty; otherwise it would be of no consequence either to discover truth or to embrace it. While under the conviction of the above principle, it is necessary to make effective provision that all who are admitted as teachers be sound in the faith, there are truths and forms with respect to which men of good character and principles may differ. In all these it is the duty both of private Christians and societies to exercise mutual forbearance toward each other." Above all, operate with Paul's command, "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2) well in mind.
Be Willing to Consider Other's thoughts, but do not be relative:
Continuing with the above does not mean the most important thing on the Board is whether we can all get along in a milquetoast tolerance where every opinion is as valid as every other one. We certainly do not espouse Pilate's dictum, "What is truth?" It is well documented that Calvin, Luther and others used harsh language at times. But it is also probably true that your internet post about the latest book is not of the same significance for the Church as Luther's Bondage of the Will or Calvin's Reply to Sodoleto.
Only one account per person is permitted.
When registering, a valid email address has to be used.
Christforums is about people, domain names or email in forum/login names are not allowed.
Do not discuss illegal activities. Our server is hosted in the USA and so is subject to US law. Please do not expose us to any unnecessary legal liability.
Post your comment/question to the most appropriate place. Any posts deemed to be in the wrong forum will be moved. Do not cross-post the same question to multiple places.
Make sure you have read the parent article/post completely before posting a reply.
Choose an appropriate subject line. Try to summarise the problem briefly in the subject, and elaborate in the message itself. Repeat the subject in the body if it will make things clearer. Do not use all caps and do not add false information just to get attention (e.g. ;read this or you will be arrested;). Do not use a URL as a thread title.
No useless posts. This includes: Thread bumping, useless one liners, Flamewars, Trolling and Spamming.
No self-promotion without prior staff approval.
Do not link to any site that contains adult content, sexually oriented material or might otherwise be considered offensive. Any post containing an inappropriate link will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning.
Do not propose/link to any site that contains warez/copyrighted software/materials that can be downloaded illegally.
No tracking links, like campaigns, are allowed on the forum.
At all times:
Keep all commentary civil, and be courteous at all times. Constructive criticism is welcome, but insults directed towards other users or the site admins will not be tolerated. Coarse/insulting language will not be tolerated.
No commercial advertising is permitted.
Any posts deemed to be self promotion, advertising, or spam can and will be removed. NO SPAM - NO ADVERTISING eg. Posting and making excessive, inappropriate and unnecessary references to your products and websites is self promotion.
If you feel a post violates any of these rules, or you need to bring it to the attention of a moderator (move threads/close/split), please use the ‘report this post’ link to notify the moderators.
Questions or Problems?
If you have any questions not addressed in the forum rules or problems with the board, please contact one of the Administrators via Private Messaging or use the Contact Form.
In this post I would like to open a discussion about the authority of the church as it pertains to its members.
It is important to point out first what I mean by "member". A member is someone who does not merely attend a church every week. Any Christian that regularly attends a specific church I respectfully suggest that they prayerfully consider becoming a member of the church they attend. Becoming a member may be called different things depending on the denomination your church belongs to. Some churches use the term "Communicant Member", others use the term "Professing Member", still others use the term "Voting Member". Regardless of the term used a member basically takes on certain responsibilities, which are generally laid out in the by-laws of the church. Those responsibilities may include, without limitation, voting in prospective elders or deacons, voting in a prospective pastor, major decision involving the direction of the church, or voting on which missionary organizations the church will support. Were you aware that, as a member, you have those responsibilities, among others?
In contrast are you aware that when you become a member you are willingly and voluntarily placing yourself, and possibly your family, under the authority of the leadership of that church? For many this is common knowledge as many churches are very articulate and forthright about this, yet others are not. It would not be surprising to find out that Christians who have become members of some of the more liberal denominations are somewhat, to completely, unaware of this fact. But what does it mean to be under the authority of the church? For some of the less informed this may conjure up visions from medieval Europe of torture or execution because of heresy, but the modern church is nowhere even close to being that intense or intrusive.
It is important to point out that, all authority comes from God, but unfortunately it is up to man to use it as He intended. Simply put the responsibility of the elders of the church include, without limitation, interviewing prospective pastors being considered to lead the church, to make sure what is being taught both from the pulpit and in the Sunday School classroom is in line with Biblical Doctrine and Theology, to routinely be in contact with the members and address or delegate any concerns a member might have, to be spiritual leaders within the church, to identify potential church leaders and provide guidance in that regard, to admonish and/or confront a member in regard to any obvious transgression that they have committed. This last one has been the subject of many controversies which have led many times to splits within the church for various reasons.
Divisions in the church is a much larger topic so I will not go into it now. Though I will say, most of the time it comes down to a few key elements, but they all have the same common denominator. Sin.
What this all comes down to is making sure, when you are considering becoming a member of a church, that you are aware of what it truly means. As mentioned, there are denominations that are very clear as to what this means, but if you are joining one of those Mega-Churches realize that they have very loose requirements for their members, much less who becomes an elder or deacon. It is very important for every Christian to be very discerning when considering to become a member of a specific church. Be sure to have an opportunity to meet with the Pastor and at least some of the Elders before coming to your decision. Also, take a close look at the church's confession and make sure you understand and agree with everything that is stated therein.
A confession is literally an explanation of what the church believes and can usually be found on the church's website, or can be obtained from one of the Elders or the Pastor himself.
Here is some additional information regarding church government:
While driving home one day from work I was listening to one of the many Christian radio stations where I lived in the Central California valley. The DJ was talking about how when he had first moved to a new town he and his wife decided to attend a local church to possibly find some people to connect with. They showed up early to attend one of the Sunday school classes and purposely picked one with young couples. There were about a half-dozen couples in the class. The DJ said he was rather cordial and said hello to some of the people in the class. They returned his greeting but not much more than that. After the class they waited around for a little bit hoping to strike up a conversation with someone, but to no avail. They then went to the service and exchanged some polite greetings but nothing more. After the service they decided not to return to that church.
Fast forward to a few years later and an acquaintance of the DJ invited the DJ and his wife to his church, which turned out to be the very same one where they received the polite, yet indifferent, greetings. They went and during the service they were seated in the front row. The pastor introduced them to the entire congregation of a few hundred, or more, members. The DJ found out afterward that someone from the church had discovered he was a DJ at a local Christian radio station and that was the reason for the invite.
This, unfortunately, illustrates how many large, and some small, churches welcome new people. I have certainly witnessed both kinds. One large non-denominational church I attended did not do a very good job at welcoming new people. In fact they were one of those churches who even dissuade members from bringing their children under a certain age (generally middle school/junior high age) from sitting with them in the service. They usually have Sunday school classes or nursery provided, or other places on the church’s campus where a whole family can sit together to hold down “distraction” during the service in the main sanctuary.
I did attend, however, an Assembly of God church that had a whole ministry around welcoming new people to the church. Though, unfortunately, they also had the same philosophy on having children in the service, though it was much more subtle.
A church we attended up until our recent relocation takes hospitality and fellowship a step further and designates a “host family” who are responsible for inviting guests to the church, as well as members who live out of town, over for the afternoon for lunch and fellowship between the morning and evening services.
The church we attend now has incorporated a monthly "share lunch" where, in a potluck sort of fashion, congregants come together after the morning service and share dishes they have made and fellowship together. Of course this works well with the size of a church this is, but could become more of a challenge the bigger the church. However, this actually was handled rather well by a church we briefly attended in the San Diego area. Instead of the entire congregation getting together for a share lunch, it was broken up by groups. Specifically, each elder of the church was given a portion of the congregation for which they were responsible. They would rotate through each of these groups.
But what the story about the DJ also illustrates is an unfortunate practice of only showing hospitality to those they deem “worthy” of it. This is truly a sad approach to hospitality and fellowship. It is almost worse than not being hospitable at all.
It is no secret that one of the ways people decide to continue attending, or even becoming members of, a church, aside from the very important issue of what is being taught, is how they are greeted and treated on their initial visit. If a church not only has sound biblical doctrine being taught from week to week, but also has a warm hospitable attitude people will come from miles away just to make it their church home.
Fellowship is a large part of a healthy, growing congregation. And it all is set by the tone of the leadership of the church. If the leadership; including the elders, pastor, and deacons; has an attitude of intimidation it can filter down to the congregation. In the case of the church in this example it seems that the leadership is more concerned with attracting more affluent people to the church, which was obviously displayed during the experience of this DJ’s two visits to the church. Quite frankly, if it were me, I would have left and never returned after the, arguably, inappropriate display made by the pastor in front of the entire congregation.
How does your church receive/welcome new visitors? Are they welcomed with warm hospitality and fellowship, or are they sized up before anyone even approaches them?
This is a call out to both church leaders and members of congregations to ask themselves how they welcome new people.
There are no,,none,,,absolutely O days that any true born again believer needs to celebrate. Woah,,, What about the Sabbath ? No, we do not celebrate a literal day to celebrate the Sabbath. Christ IS our SABBATH REST ! Look it up in any good conservative commentary and you will find exactly what I have written above . Entire religions are built around certain biblical and non biblical laws and precepts that are observed by them. The Seventh Day Adventist are a very deceptive religion . They sound good ,but compare them to the WWC of God and you will see what I mean . The WWC of God is all works and very little if any grace orientated . They mention Christ but deny His deity . M
Depends on what your motivations is. The only reasons I can think of to eat corned beef and cabbage is they are tasty and you don't like the people around, due to booty fuel it generates.
The Veggie Tales are very educational, so there is that.